Mormon News Podcast

Nemo [00:00:01] Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Mormon News podcast. It is the 17th of July, 2026 and we are back with another weekly roundup of all things Mormonism. I am one of your hosts today, Nemo. And I am joined by the illustrious Meggan from Generally Unquotable. Gonna pop her on screen now if I can make that work. There we go. Hi, Meggan, how are you?

Meggan Hayes [00:00:22] I'm doing wonderful. Happy to be here.

Nemo [00:00:25] It's great. John has decided to let us loose before with this news show today. How do you feel about that?

Meggan Hayes [00:00:34] I feel fine. We'll see how John feels when it's over and then we will know.

Nemo [00:00:38] We'll see how he's getting on with it. So I don't think there's any need. People will just see how this goes. We will see how this goes. Let's get started, shall we? Tell me the news, Meggan. Let's. Let's get it up on screen if I can. There we go. Cool.

Mormon News

Meggan Hayes [00:00:55] The big story today is this 88, 500 missionaries record that the church just set. Because I get Mormon News sent to my inbox in my Gmail and 90% of the articles have been this record this week. So I thought we better talk about it.

Nemo [00:01:15] So it's big news. And just before we do talk about it, I think it's also important to mention, as someone in the comments has put, that we are not associated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. You know, just, just in case anyone was borderline confused by, by this. We're not. And, and that's all I'm gonna say about that. So we got our top stories of the week. We have the 88 and a half thousand missionaries. We got some. I think it's sad that every week we are able to see that someone else has been arrested for doing things that they ought not to do. We got byu, have got a sponsorship with Monster. Interesting to hear about that. Martin's Cove land swap. I'm sure you're gonna tell me about that. And then Amy Wright, who is talking about women's roles. I'm trying to remember what her position is within the church these days.

Meggan Hayes [00:02:04] She is in the primary general presidency, but only for a couple more weeks.

Nemo [00:02:09] Yeah, perfect. All right, cool. Okay, let's. Let's have at it. So, first big story, let's roll the tape.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Meggan Hayes [00:02:19] The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is making history with this missionary program. According to church leaders, there are currently more than 88,500 full time missionaries serving right now. They say that is an all time high. The previous high was 88,000 back in 2014. Leaders say the increase is because of the first wave of 18 year old sister missionaries beginning to serve. The missionary program consists of young proselytizing elders and sisters, service missionaries and senior missionaries.

Nemo [00:02:48] Okay. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints by the intro again, let me work out. There we go. Perfect. So your thoughts on that, Meggan?

Meggan Hayes [00:02:58] Well, when the church comes out with a number, I always like to see if I can figure out where that number came from. That's my first inclination when the church comes out with a statistic of any sort. So I just, when I saw the headlines over and over and over again, what I wanted to know was where are these numbers coming from?

Nemo [00:03:18] And I think we're going to get into where they came from. And it is dense and mystical and it's like that show severance. Right. The work is mysterious and important. It's like, you know, the numbers are mysterious and important when it comes to church's records with this stuff. But we have, we have monson here in October 2012.

Meggan Hayes [00:03:41] Yes, I like to do a timeline. That's just how my mind works. And so I was like, okay, if we're going to talk about this record, we need to go back to when it began, which I believe is in October of 2012 when Monson lowered the mission, the mission age for the first time. And so let's see, it says, this is from the news article that came out at that time in a move to expand the opportunities for young members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to serve full time missions to church President Thomas S. Monson announced today that effective immediately, men may now begin serving at age 18 and women at age 19. The previous age for beginning missionary service was 19 years of age for young men and 21 for young women.

Nemo [00:04:25] Yeah, and I believe off the top of my head something that was said at one point was that they didn't actually, I think it's Holland that once said the reason they didn't want missionaries serving at the same age is because they didn't want them fraternizing. I think that that came up when they then not only changed the age, as we'll see later on the timeline, to make them the same age, but they also then started basically encouraging people to find their eternal companion on their mission, which used to be a big no, no and now just seems like it's acceptable and allowed. So yeah, let's move the timeline on if I can. There we go. Sweet. Just. I'm learning how to manage the screen here. So, folks, be patient.

Meggan Hayes [00:05:05] I love it. Yeah. So this is from July 14th of 2026. This is a more recent article. It says, in 2012, church leaders lowered the age for missionary service. It's referring to that from 19 to 18 for men and from 21 to 19 for women. That resulted in a massive surge of missionaries, with the total force rising from 58,990 in 2012 to 88,000 in 2014. So when I saw those numbers, I continued to be very curious about what that looked like, because that is a huge surge. If what they're claiming is true, it's

Nemo [00:05:42] not exactly surprising that there would be a big surge because that. That drop in age is significant for women. Any woman that wants to pursue her education, dropping it from 21 to 19 kind of allows them to do a similar thing that the young men were doing. They'd go to college for a year. Right. And then defer. Go on their mission, then come back. So it really did open up the door for more people to serve. I'm not sort of doubtful about that, but I think we need to look into these numbers a little bit deeper because how long was it you said you spent looking through all this?

Meggan Hayes [00:06:12] I. This is embarrassing. A little bit. But I went back and looked at the timestamps on the history in my browser, and it was about seven hours that I spent digging through the numbers.

Nemo [00:06:25] I don't think that's embarrassing. I think that is testament to how opaque these numbers are. And we will get a good example of that right now. Yes, there we go. Right.

Meggan Hayes [00:06:35] So, yeah, so I started looking. Yeah. Statistical reports, which used to be, I think, a bit more transparent than they are now. So the statistical report from December 31st of 2012 said they had 58,990 missionaries. And that's what was talked about in that news article. And then if you go a year later, it does say there are 83,035. And then a news article. So this wasn't in a statistical report. I had to dive through News articles from March 31 of 2014, because when they lowered the age, reporters were really interested in what was going on, what the surge was going to look like. So In March of 2014, reporters pressed the church and said, okay, well, what are the numbers now? And that's when the church reported 85,039. So from December to March, it had gone up a couple thousand. And then the 88,000 number comes up. And that number, I Looked for in statistical reports all over and never found it. The only place I found it was in Thomas Monson's conference address and other people's addresses from that Same conference in 2014 where he mentioned over 88,000 missionaries. No actual number was published.

Nemo [00:08:00] Now that, to me sounds like the sort of number that gets kind of floated around the church office building. Like that's the sort of thing where they go, oh, yeah, you know, there's over 88,000 missionaries serving now. And I was like, wow, yeah, really? That's really cool. And then there's no detail to it. They just keep handing it out. The church's lack of transparency over the years has just increased and increased. I think about the fact that I think it was 1959 or 1960 was the last time we had a full financial report of the church's finances. That's when we got that last. And then Henry Moyle tanked the church's finances. So the first solution was we'll just. We'll stop telling people what's going on with our money because we're quite embarrassed that we built a bunch of chapels that we couldn't afford. But then they got the finances back on track and we never heard what their financial financial situation once again. And I think they're following a similar line with sort of these missionary numbers. Let's get this statistical report. I think that's the final part of the slide, right?

The Numbers in the Statistical Report

Meggan Hayes [00:08:55] So when we looked at the March 2014, they said 80, just over 85,000, right? Then in October of that same year, that's when the 88,000 number came out. But the statistical report from the end of that year from. So this is going from October to December says there were only 85,000, 147. What, did they lose a couple thousand missionaries in a couple of months? It's a strange number. And I could not figure out why there was that discrepancy.

Nemo [00:09:26] They take people's passports off them, right? They take missionaries passports off them. They can't go anywhere. How are they losing 3,000 missionaries? And this is about to become a theme that these numbers are so opaque. This. There's. There's nothing here that we can sort of concretely hold on to to work out why that number in the statistical report could be 85,000. The number being over 88,000. That's reported because they've given no actual number and they've given a breakdown of how the numbers are formed. We just don't know where that 3,000 have gone. But we do have an. We do have further breakdowns sometimes. And let's get into this data and prepare to be more confused. Folks, we're trying our best to make this make sense and we're going to spend a bit of time on this first story, but we will try our best to make it make sense. Meggan, please, let's get this on screen.

Total Missionary Numbers:

Meggan Hayes [00:10:27] Yeah, so I think what you were saying though, with the previous number is that there were probably 85,000 some odd missionaries. And then Monson heard that number, floated around, said it in general conference, and it just stuck, whether or not there were statistics to back it up. So that's what happened in 2014. That was the big surge. And that's important because they're referring to it now.

Nemo [00:10:49] So this just 12 years ago, by the way, people. Just so. Yeah, 12 years ago they hit their high.

Meggan Hayes [00:10:58] Mm. And then in last November, women can now serve missions for the Church of Jesus Christ at age 18. So the age was then lowered for sister missionaries. And so then I looked at more statistical reports at the end of last year, in December of 2025. Now they're breaking it down. Full time teaching missionaries, 78,596. Then there's this strange category of senior service missionaries, 31,613, which isn't always put in the statistical report. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. That's why I made it gray. I don't think it goes toward their total missionary number. And then Young service mission and then young Service Missionaries, 4518. So the total between the full time teaching missionaries and the young service missionaries at the end of 2025 was 83,114, excluding that odd 31,000 number that I don't really know exactly what it means. Yeah. So then next, the World News report in March of this year, 2026 said more than 85,000.

Nemo [00:12:09] Yeah.

Meggan Hayes [00:12:09] And then if we go on to the mission leader seminar, which was in June just one month ago, this is Dallin Oaks who put this slide up. He said young teaching missionaries 76,500, young service missionaries 4,600 and full time senior missionaries, 6,000, for a total of 87,100. And the thing that strikes me the most about those numbers is that they're all even like rounded out.

Nemo [00:12:36] Yeah.

Meggan Hayes [00:12:37] Which means. I don't think those are likely the. Oh, what?

Nemo [00:12:41] Two by two missionaries go to. Right. It's got to be even numbers, surely. But yes, I get what you're saying, that they're of their whole hundreds. Right, Right.

Meggan Hayes [00:12:51] Like, what are the odds that there's exactly that many missionaries out? Like, I don't think those numbers are the actual numbers. I think they're rounded one way or the other.

Nemo [00:12:59] But then what's interesting is they go, okay, 87,000 plus, you know, they don't give the, they don't even bother to go 87,100. They're just like more than 87,000. You're like, great. Anytime they're reporting assistant can say, well, it's over this, just give us the exact number.

Meggan Hayes [00:13:17] It always seems they know what it is.

Nemo [00:13:18] Yeah, it seems to smack of like, oh, well, it's so close to that number that it sounds more impressive if we just say over 88 and a half thousand rather than saying 88,519. That's for some reason to them it would, it seems like it's less important to be specific. There's some, there's some, I guess, wiggle room in the vagueness because if we actually get into these numbers little bit with them still on screen, we see that the full time teaching missionaries plus the young service missionaries gives us 83,000 for the end of 2025. When we compare that to six months later, what you've got is a reduction of so young teaching missionaries that. Is that a comparable number to full time teaching missionaries? I would imagine so. And unless they're including in full time teaching missionaries, senior missionaries perhaps, but then there's still, then there's an increase, I guess. But if, if we take young teaching missionaries to be the same as full time teacher missionaries, there's actually been a decrease of 2,000 missionaries there. Young service missionaries have gone up by 82 in the past six months. There's been 82 more of them

Guest [00:14:36] and

Nemo [00:14:36] they're full time senior missionaries. We don't know if they were included in full time teaching missionaries or not. But even if they were, that's then 82 and a half thousand on the quick math. So you've gone up by 4,000 full time teaching missionaries in six months. Does that seem legit to people in the audience?

Meggan Hayes [00:14:58] I don't even know. Right. And that's what's confusing is because the categories aren't always the same. They don't always use the same wording to talk about the same group of missionaries. So every time I looked at a set of numbers, I had to try and decide what are they actually talking about here? And it was difficult. That's why I spent so much time doing it.

Nemo [00:15:15] And I think that's deliberate. The fact that they don't consistently use the same categories year on year makes it almost impossible to compare the data, which means that they are. Then you kind of have to just lean into the trust me bro of it all when they're just saying, well, this is how many missionaries we have. Because, well, we can't dissect it. We can't see who's added, who's taken away. We can't see what fact, what category of missionaries is increased, what category of missionaries is decreased. We just don't know.

Meggan Hayes [00:15:43] Yeah.

Nemo [00:15:43] So yeah, and the more you look

Meggan Hayes [00:15:45] at the numbers, the harder it gets to know.

Missionary Force surpasses 88,000 in 2014

Nemo [00:15:47] Well, so then a month, a month after they had 87 and a half

Meggan Hayes [00:15:51] thousand, was it 87,100.

Nemo [00:15:54] Sorry, 87,100. We then get an extra at least 1600 missionaries. Sorry.

Meggan Hayes [00:16:04] Yeah. So then July 14, 2026, just a few days ago, news report. Approximately. See approximately 88, 500 full time missionaries are serving worldwide, surpassing the previous high of just over 88,000 in 2014. This historic missionary force comprises young teaching and service missionaries and senior missionaries.

Nemo [00:16:25] Right, okay. Young teachers.

Meggan Hayes [00:16:30] Yeah. The one thing that struck me is that number one, in 2014, we don't know if they ever hit 88,000. No, because that number was never in a statistical report. It was just mentioned in conference.

Nemo [00:16:40] And then because it's more than 88,000 again, it could have been 88,001. And if this is more than 88 and a half thousand, it could be 88,501. So the, the smallest possible amount that this is beating the record by is 500 missionaries. That's could be more, but it's like an all time high of maybe 500 and, and it just seems somewhat insignificant in some ways. I think in order for a record to be meaningful, it has to, you have to be able to examine it. And this record just can't be examined, can it? How are we meant to meaningfully examine what 88 and a half thousand missionaries actually means for the church? They can try and say it means that more people serve never. Which means more people have more faith. And look how great the rising generation tmr. Right. Look how wonderful this all is. We don't know if that increase was purely in senior missionaries. We don't know if just more old people retired and were able to afford to go on senior missions. And that's where we got the extra one and a half thousand missionaries.

Meggan Hayes [00:17:50] Or in 2014, that was the year they piloted the service missionary program, did their 88,000 random number include those service missionaries. Because if it didn't and they had some, maybe right now it's just reached that same high.

Nemo [00:18:07] Yeah, yeah. So maybe it's not a record at all. We just can't know because the church is not being transparent. And that is the story of the church in a nutshell, really. And then you said you got an extra little bit on this that you, that you enjoy about how you think this will affect system missionaries in college.

Sister Missionary Age Drop expected to boost women's college success

Meggan Hayes [00:18:28] Yeah. This article came out in Utah. Sister missionary age drop expected to boost women's college success. Research system suggests so. There's a video we can watch where they talk about it a little bit.

Nemo [00:18:42] Let's have that.

Meggan Hayes [00:18:46] A new study from BYU suggests serving a mission may influence what some women choose to study in college. Researchers found more than 30% of returned sister missionaries change their major after coming home, many switching into fields that have traditionally been male dominated. Here's what a USU professor says may explain that trend. As a sister missionary, you work with a lot of elders. You work and know and I think develop your confidence, but also competence and understand, you know, you are as smart and confident and confident as these young men are, too. And so I thought that was really interesting. We're told the study was conducted by interviewing several hundred young women.

Nemo [00:19:29] I think there's something really ironic about cutting a woman off in mid sentence in that report, but.

Guest 2 [00:19:36] Yeah.

Nemo [00:19:36] What are your thoughts there, Meggan?

Meggan Hayes [00:19:39] I think, I mean, I'm wondering now if this is why. I don't know that he would have tied it together, but Dallin Oaks came out and said, when you're on your mission, now that you're all the same age, go ahead and look for your partner. Because they're seeing sister missionaries wanting to come home and go back to school instead of just running off to the altar.

Nemo [00:19:59] Oh, yeah. Because Dallin H. Oaks is the, you know, the last bastion in the free world of traditional marriage. I think that's how he views himself, the last defender of that. And he has got a big thing for traditional marriage and the family proclamation and making sure people are married and having children. He's really worried about the birth rate. He's really clearly very worried about these sorts of things. And so, yeah, I think that's a fair point that he's trying to combat this by saying, look, this isn't about you then being able to get more educated. You need to get married still. So, yeah, maybe this doesn't have the intended impact the church wants it to have.

Meggan Hayes [00:20:36] Right. Like an unintended consequence that's good. I think it's amazing for women to come home from their missions and decide, I think I'm going to finish my career before I get married, or get married and finish my career either way. But I think it's awesome that they're feeling like they have a choice. That was something I didn't feel like I was offered. And so I think it's really good that they're feeling like they have a choice. Now I can come home. I've gone on my mission. I made decisions while I was on my mission. I learned how to talk to people. I, you know, feel a lot more confident in myself. And now I'm gonna finish school. I think it's amazing. I don't think. I don't know that the church foresaw that happening.

Nemo [00:21:18] Yeah, I don't think so either. And I think we'll wait and see. I think that woman's absolutely right that sister missionaries encounter young men of their own age and realize, hey, I mean, I think they probably already knew, but these guys aren't necessarily the most competent all the time. We're all figuring it out and kind

Meggan Hayes [00:21:40] of like, maybe we're not ready. Maybe we're. Maybe none of us are ready.

Nemo [00:21:45] Yeah. Okay. So on to the next story if. If we can. Right. Okay.

Meggan Hayes [00:21:54] Yeah, we're gonna take a little bit

Nemo [00:21:55] of a turn, everyone, for your patience. Yeah. Okay. Right. So glibness out. Fun banter out. It gets serious now because unfortunately, we enter what seems to be a weekly segment of who's the latest member of the church to face accusations of abusing children. It's not a segment that I would like to be a weekly segment. I wish it wasn't possible. Possible that this was a weekly segment, but it turns out it is. Is that your observation, Meggan?

The Church's Sexual Abuse Cases

Meggan Hayes [00:22:24] Yeah. Yes. I. I don't want to put them in every week, but when there's so many, and this is choosing. Which is terrible. The. The worst ones. I don't even know if that's a thing, but it's like the top two most publicized or top. Most publicized one that comes out every week. Because there are more.

Nemo [00:22:43] Yeah.

Meggan Hayes [00:22:44] Yeah. I wish we didn't talk about it every week.

Nemo [00:22:47] Yeah. Leo Lopshire. What's he been doing?

Meggan Hayes [00:22:49] Yeah. In the news report, they call him Leo Lopshire, but I was thinking you would pronounce that differently. And it was.

Nemo [00:22:55] My apologies. I can imagine. No, I like Leo Lopshire. Right.

Meggan Hayes [00:23:02] So. Oh, sorry. Yeah. So, positions. Boy Scouts. This came from floodlit.org. they're really good. At getting what church positions they held. So he was in the Boy Scouts. He was a church employee, an elders quorum president, a high priest president and a young men's leader.

Nemo [00:23:18] Okay.

Meggan Hayes [00:23:19] And then. Yeah, I think there's a news spot next that might talk about what it was that he.

Nemo [00:23:23] Yeah, let's, let's hear it from, from the journalists.

Former elementary teacher arrested for sexually abusing students

Guest 2 [00:23:28] Scarborough county deputies are searching for more victims. They've charged a man with child sex crimes. 81 year old Leo Lopshire was charged last week with four counts of a lewd act on a minor under 14. Sheriff's office says they investigated when a family member informed them of the incidents that happened between August of 97 and August of 01. Lobster was released from the detention center after posting an $80,000 bond. Investigators think there are more victims. If you have information, contact them at the number on your screen. 864-494-7065.

Nemo [00:24:02] Okay. Yeah, I have no doubt there probably are. I would imagine more victims. Investigators think that there are. And I also unfortunately have no doubt that this is not the first that anyone knew of what this man had done. Would we happen to know whether anyone else knew?

Meggan Hayes [00:24:23] So there is a little comment that, that I took from Floodlit where they talked about that. It's on the next slide.

Nemo [00:24:30] Okay. Just trying to get the slides working. We're having some technical difficulties.

Meggan Hayes [00:24:36] I can, I can read it if you'd like me to. It says according to someone familiar with Lobster. I said that your way. He was employed by the LDS Church when he lived around the Salt Lake City, Utah area. They stated he was eventually excommunicated in the 2010s, but this was after decades of abuse inside the church. He is still allowed to attend his ward. And while the local leaders are aware of his crimes, they have not warned or told adults with young children in his ward about him.

Nemo [00:25:07] And that's from the news article.

Meggan Hayes [00:25:09] This is from Floodlit.

Nemo [00:25:11] This is from Flood.

Meggan Hayes [00:25:12] That.

Nemo [00:25:12] Okay.

Meggan Hayes [00:25:12] Yeah.

Nemo [00:25:13] Right, yeah.

Meggan Hayes [00:25:13] So they often are in touch with victims or those adjacent to victims.

Nemo [00:25:18] So this was a statement alleged by victims or those who are familiar with, with this situation. And it's unfortunately not an unfamiliar. Again, not an unfamiliar set of circumstances. You know that, right?

Meggan Hayes [00:25:34] I mean, it's unfortunate that we're not surprised.

Nemo [00:25:38] Yes, indeed. And was he the only one? No.

Meggan Hayes [00:25:44] So this is a, this is a different person who came up this week. Former elementary teacher arrested in Cache county for child sex crimes. And this article came out 14 hours ago. But he has had multiple, multiple times when he's been caught. So his name is Patrick Allen Green, a former elementary teacher who was arrested by Trenton Garland Police in 2022. That was the first time on allegations of sexually abusing children but never formerly charged. And that one I couldn't figure out. I went back and did as much research as possible and could not figure out why he was not charged. The first time he was working at an elementary school, there were allegations made and he was fired but never charged.

Nemo [00:26:32] Right.

Meggan Hayes [00:26:32] And he is, he's a member? Yes.

Nemo [00:26:35] Yeah, he's a member of the church. Okay.

Meggan Hayes [00:26:37] Yeah, I spoke with, well, I messaged. I didn't speak. I messaged with a few people yesterday who were in his ward over the years and confirmed that he is a member.

Nemo [00:26:48] Right. Okay. So another one. We've got a news clip here. So let's listen to this and then we can opine a little.

Guest 3 [00:26:58] April Baker in the Fox 13 newsroom. We are just getting new information about a Garland Elementary School teacher who has been terminated and arrested for allegedly sexually abusing two female students. Patrick Green, 59 years old, now faces four counts of aggravated sexual abuse of a child, which is a first degree felony. Arresting documents state a female student told officials that on multiple occasions Green would stand behind her and make her touch him inappropriately during the investigation. Arrest documents state a second female reported that Green had touched her inappropriately. The second female, who was a former student, told officials that Green touched her inappropriately on multiple occasions. So this was sent in an email to parents from the Box Elder School District. The school leaders say they received a report of an employee misconduct by green back on September 9th. He was immediately placed on administrative leave. He has since been terminated and is being held without bail. In the absence of Green, a replacement teacher was hired and will stay with the school throughout the remainder of the year. And that was explained in the email as well. We'll keep you posted on the situation on air online fox13now.com okay, Meggan, talk me through it.

Meggan Hayes [00:28:17] Well, it's an interesting case because this happened, it was reported in the news and he was fired from his position. And then I read through the statement of probable cause and they talked about the allegations from students. And then he was, he was being held without bail and then he was never charged. And I, yeah, I went through all of the contacts I have who can get me information about that kind of stuff, and there was not any clear information as to why he was not charged. I looked into the people who were adjacent to the case, the police officer, and they were, as far as I could tell they were all members, which doesn't mean that that's why they didn't charge him. But I think from what I can tell, and just to, you know, put out my feelings, is that in Utah, there is among the Mormon crowd, there is a propensity to downplay or overlook these things. That's why there is such a big problem. And so I don't know why he wasn't charged, but if it had something to do with the culture around the area in Utah, I wouldn't be surprised.

Nemo [00:29:33] Right. Okay, we've got another slide here that kind of gives a little bit more detail here so we can go through this. It says that Green, 63, was booked into the Cache County Jail on July 15, 2026, on eight counts of third degree felony lewdness involving a child and one count of class B misdemeanor lewdness, according to the court records. According to the Cache County Sheriff's Office probable cause affidavit, deputies first responded on June 25 after receiving a report of a man at a homeowners association pool in Nibley who was allegedly watching juvenile girls underwater while wearing swim goggles. Deputies returned to the Same Pool on July 1 after another report involving the same man. Two juvenile girls told an adult they'd previously seen him expose himself while they were swimming, prompting another call to law enforcement. I am sorry that people had to hear that, but we have this at the bottom here as well, which. What's this from Meggan?

Utah Man Arrested for Lewdness Involving Children

Meggan Hayes [00:30:30] So this was when I was chatting on Facebook with people who are close to the situation. This was one of the comments that came up.

Nemo [00:30:40] Okay. So they said in 2022, he was banned from being involved in any children's callings. But I know from other members of his ward he still shows up in public places where the children's groups have activities. So it would seem that this man is known to be this kind of nuisance, this kind of problem for where there are children out in public. This just in spite of what he did as a school teacher and the way he abused that position. But my question yet is why more isn't done within the community to kind of wrangle this guy out of. Out of sort of causing harm, like keeping him away. For as much as Mormons love to be in each other's pockets and love to monitor each other's behavior, it seems that when predators are out and about, they for some reason don't want to monitor that behavior. I think it's something that comes to mind is the Sam Bateman Documentary, the police officer who's talking about how, you know, dealing with this material hurts a tender heart. And it's like, okay, I get it, fine. But in that same way that contention is of the devil stops people having meaningful disagreements and meaningful conversations. This idea of like, oh, we don't want to expose ourselves to these things because we're too tender hearted and it's too hurtful. It's like sometimes you got to engage with the person who's a big problem in your community. Whether, whether you want to or not, you've got to do something because there's vulnerable children involved. If you know something that's going on, you can't just ignore it because you're tender hearted. You need to like step up and say something or do something about it.

Meggan Hayes [00:32:11] Yes. Well, and children. Yeah, children need to have the tools to know what is appropriate and what is not appropriate.

Nemo [00:32:19] Yeah. Which they're also not very well given within the church.

Meggan Hayes [00:32:24] No, no. Because when I was 12 years old and I was told that I needed to go have an interview with the bishop, I didn't know that I could decline. I mean, what, what child in Mormonism starting at the age of eight actually understands that they can decline an interview with the bishop? Are their parents giving them. Yeah. Are their parents giving them that option to say no?

Nemo [00:32:48] No. Well, there's the illusion of choice for 8 year olds in the church. We won't get too sidetracked by this, but you know, you look at the way that people announce their children's baptisms. Oh, I'm so proud that that Bray din spelt with too many wise and too many ends has been. Yeah. Has chosen to be baptized. And you're like, that eight year old kid has not chosen anything. That eight year old kid has. Has had a pseudo choice put in front of them by parents with big expectations and they have done what is expected of them communally. And it's the same with giving them the choice with a bishop's interview. They don't know that. No, it's an option. They're just like, oh, okay, I'm expected to meet with this guy, then I guess I will. This guy's question, because he kind of represents God. I guess I will. And that's right.

Meggan Hayes [00:33:30] Like for me as a child, that extended to all male authority figures in my life. I mean, I. We moved to Utah when I was 10, so likely most of them were members, but a school teacher, a police officer, I looked at them all the same way and I didn't think I could Say no.

Nemo [00:33:44] Yeah. Holy apostate puts it quite well. They say choice under duress. Yeah, that kind of has that feeling. Feeling to it. Something I was taught to say no to because, you know, Segways are fun was energy drinks. Were you taught to say no to energy drinks?

Meggan Hayes [00:34:01] You know, energy drinks were not even a discussion. I was taught to say no to Coke and Pepsi.

Nemo [00:34:06] Me too, me too.

Meggan Hayes [00:34:08] And sweet tea that my neighbor would offer us occasionally.

Nemo [00:34:12] Yeah. So, you know, we were told to say no to these things. And yet, and yet, it would seem. Continuing its proud tradition of keeping the church's standards until the Division 1 sports team is involved, BYU have decided to make a deal with the devil and partner up with Monster Energy.

Meggan Hayes [00:34:31] So it's the big, the big 12, which is the, the whole group of football team. Well, sports teams. And so I don't know, I was trying to. I don't know enough about sports to know what sort of choice BYU had in declining this. But they don't play on Sundays, which a lot of the other teams do. And so if they can say no to playing on Sundays, if they really felt that this was morally wrong, I think they probably would have pushed and found a way to say no.

Nemo [00:35:00] Well, hey, the church used their sincerely held religious belief of needing a massive whack off steeple to bully the town of Fairview, Texas into having a temple the size they wanted it. So I feel like they're not averse to saying, hey, this goes against our religious flavors. And so no, thank you.

Meggan Hayes [00:35:18] But they didn't say that in this. In this. Yeah, so this says your mark. Yeah, he's the, the head of the association. Announced Tuesday that. And people will have to forgive me if I don't use the right sports terminology, announced Tuesday that Monster Energy will now be an entitlement partner with the league in football and in men's and women's basketball. That partnership will include a co branded monster energy and Big 12 patch on football and basketball jerseys with additional branding on field courts around the league. The deal is valued around 20 million annually or about 1 million per school, according to Sports Business Journal.

Nemo [00:35:57] And so that's, that's worth a million dollars to the school. I mean that's. The Mormon church makes that on enzyme peak within a day. I think they made back the 5 million they were fined in hours. So they don't need that money. No necessarily because BYU is funded by the church, so the church doesn't need that million. So what's their, what's their reasoning? They just want to Be seen like a normal. They don't want to be too much of an oddball. Are they fed up with people, like, chanting f the Mormons from the stands? And they want to be like, hey, we're cool. Like you guys.

7.6 Million Young People Say They Have Used Energy Drinks

Meggan Hayes [00:36:35] Like, what, we got the monster logo now?

Nemo [00:36:38] Yeah.

Meggan Hayes [00:36:40] It is confusing in that way. I don't. Because they don't need the money, but they do like money. They don't need it, but I don't see them turning it down.

Guest 3 [00:36:48] No.

Nemo [00:36:48] But then I guess I was kind of trying to point to that double standard earlier where, you know, you see BYU I and their cheerleaders are all in those long sleeve shirts. Right. And stuff like that because of modesty. And then the BYU cheerleaders are all in standard cheerleading attire because, you know, they don't want their sports team to be silly. The, the language used by a member of the BYU football team in the locker room that was leaked, what was that? Like a year or two ago, was the sort of stuff that I, you know, would have gotten serious trouble for as a, as a fully devout Mormon saying, using that kind of language. Right. Mormons don't speak like that. And yet, because he's a football player and he's, you know, he's on the team and all this sort of stuff, and it's a big deal, then it kind of gets away with it.

Guest 4 [00:37:30] Yeah.

Meggan Hayes [00:37:31] I went to BYUI and I couldn't wear shorts or even capris, actually. And so one time I accidentally wore a pair of capris to class and I thought I was gonna get sent home. I just forgot. Like, I was out with the kids in the morning and then I went to class in the afternoon and I looked down and I was like, oh, no.

Guest 3 [00:37:48] Which.

Nemo [00:37:48] Isn't that a Mormon sentence? That's a BYU sentence in and of itself. Right. I was out with kids in the morning and I was in class in the afternoon. Like most college students are not in that situation.

Guest [00:38:00] No.

Meggan Hayes [00:38:00] I had two kids and I was pregnant when I graduated with my bachelor's degree. So.

Nemo [00:38:05] So, but less, less people think that we are, you know, just going, oh, well, you know, energy drinks, whatnot. That's, that's, you know, we shouldn't really do it. This is something that was taught explicitly against. We've got some slides here where they. The church really, really pushed that. Energy drinks are not good. And before we throw that up on screen, just as a. Put up this super chat from. I love you deeply. I love you too. It says, good to see Nemo and Meggan. Good combo thank you very much for your support and for your super chat. There's a, there's a conspiracy theory going around that the monster logo is a reference to 666. I can imagine the kind of people who hold that opinion. I'm sure as if the church is partnering with the Antichrist. There will be people that will take that, that road, I'm sure. But yes. Let's see how the church taught against energy drinks. Meggan, run us through it.

Meggan Hayes [00:39:03] Yeah. So this is from 2008, not, not terribly long ago, the energy drink addiction. This was in the, the new era. I don't, it's called something different now, I believe by Thomas J. Baud, M.D. so a doctor, you've seen these drinks all over television and in the stores. Over the past several years, high dose caffeine energy drinks have been aggressively marketed to teens and young adults. And now BYU is going to be doing part of that marketing. In 2006 alone, about 500 new brands of energy drinks were introduced. In fact, 7.6 million young people say they have used energy drinks. I mean this goes on and on and on. And then there's a second article.

Nemo [00:39:43] I love the way that they say, I love the way they say 7.6 million young people say they have used energy drinks. Not consumed, not drank, used like they're hard drugs. It's like, yeah, they may, it may as well say 7.6 million young people have used heroin. Like that's, that's the energy that that sentence is giving off to me is like they used it.

Meggan Hayes [00:40:06] Yes, absolutely. He's really coming down hard on these energy drinks.

Nemo [00:40:11] Which as a doctor, fair enough. Like I would be too. I, I, you know, I wouldn't be recommending my patients energy drinks. Really. They're not that, like, this isn't me being an energy drink apologist and saying they're good for you. I'm just pointing out that the church has, to their credit in some ways tried to wave the flag about how energy drinks aren't good for you. And they did. So from a doctor's perspective and also spiritually, Right?

Meggan Hayes [00:40:37] Yeah. And it's going to get really spiritual here in a second. So the other one was from the. I can't see that date. I think the same year and there's the same month. Yeah.

Nemo [00:40:48] December 2008. The church really going hard on this message.

Meggan Hayes [00:40:52] I know. I wonder what happened then. I wonder if there was a correlation in popular media or something. Energy drinks the Lift that lets you down by Russell Wilcox. I didn't find any Relation between Russell and Brad, but I didn't look that. That much. Yeah, so they're hot, they're hip, everywhere.

Energy drinks the Lift That Lets You Down by Russell Wilcox

Nemo [00:41:08] They're hot, they're hip, they're everywhere.

Meggan Hayes [00:41:12] He's. He's really appealing to the younger crowd. Energy drinks promise a quick pick me up. But that quick boost of energy comes with some hefty drawbacks both physically and spiritually.

Nemo [00:41:24] This is giving me some sherry. Is it Sherry Du. No, it's Wendy Nelson who did the not even Once club books. Is it her or whoever it was?

Meggan Hayes [00:41:32] Yeah, no, it was. It was Wendy Nelson. They were illustrated by a friend of mine.

Nemo [00:41:37] All right. But it's giving me those vibes, right? It's like the monster energy. Not even once. Kids like those posters where you see someone's life just ruined. It's. It's Steve Bartlett. I drank a glass of wine and it ruined my life for three days. It's kind of. It's that sort of, you know, hefty drawbacks physically and spiritually. Okay.

Meggan Hayes [00:41:58] Yeah. So he goes on. Did I put it in the next slide? He goes on to talk about. Oh, so this is a different one. So in that last one, he goes on to talk about a kid who was trying to prepare for his mission, only he was drinking 12 energy drinks a day. And he said he wasn't. Yeah, that's what the. The story in that. I'm sorry, December.

Guest 2 [00:42:18] He was.

Nemo [00:42:19] Say that again, please.

Meggan Hayes [00:42:21] Okay, so, yes, Russell Wilcox, in that article, he goes on to say that he was trying to help a young man prepare for his mission. And when they did an interview, the man said he was the young boy, I mean, 18, maybe 19, was drinking 12 energy drinks a day. That's the claim,

Guest 2 [00:42:45] Right?

Meggan Hayes [00:42:46] One an hour.

Nemo [00:42:47] What must that do to you?

Meggan Hayes [00:42:52] I don't. And. And so he said, well, maybe you're addicted to these. And the kid said, no, I'm not addicted. And. And so then I can stop anytime I want.

Nemo [00:43:00] As he founds one in front of

Meggan Hayes [00:43:02] the guy, he would have to because he would run out of time to drink that many if he wasn't drinking one during the interview. So then he goes home, he realizes it's really hard to stop, so he gets a blessing, and then he stops drinking the energy drinks and goes on his mission. And, you know, that's the moral of the story. But I just. I can. I can have one cup of coffee a day, and that's enough.

Nemo [00:43:22] I do. I get excited when I drink sparkling water. This is my treat. This is my treasure. Right. Sparkling water is How I get exciting. So I know I am just boring. But yeah, energy drinks have never appealed anyway.

Meggan Hayes [00:43:41] So if they went to sugar free ones, can you imagine the amount of sugar also? I mean not just caffeine.

Nemo [00:43:47] Incredible. But it means that when I need something like Coca Cola, if I need to stay up late at night to get like, you know, driving somewhere, that stuff will work on me because I don't, you know, I've not developed a intolerance, a tolerance to it.

Meggan Hayes [00:44:03] Yes. Same if I drink. Yeah. From the same month. I would say if I drink a caffeinated tea in the evening then I know I'm going to be up to until at least 10 or 11.

Nemo [00:44:13] Yeah. But what strikes me here is that BYU being sponsored by Monster, this is the same university that like it was a big deal when they let coke on campus. Right. They let's get some of those slides up.

Meggan Hayes [00:44:27] Yeah. Because yeah. So in 2017, that wasn't that long ago like they, they wouldn't allow caffeine on campus and now they're sponsoring Monster energy drinks like the. My, how the tables have turned.

Guest 2 [00:44:46] Indeed.

Nemo [00:44:47] The BYU creamery is now got energy drinks which spark discussion.

Meggan Hayes [00:44:53] Yeah, well so the. In February of this year, 2026, somebody went into the creamery and found that they had little hydration packets on the shelves that had green tea extract in them and complained and got them removed

Nemo [00:45:08] and everyone lost their minds. And now BYU sponsored by Monster Energy, full of things much worse for you than green tea. We also had here. Sorry, this thing about spiritual consequences. This is. So these are the spiritual consequences of energy drinks. Let's have that.

The Spiritual Consequences of Energy drinks

Meggan Hayes [00:45:28] Yeah. As serious as the physical consequences are, the greater concern is how energy drinks can affect us spiritually. Agency is absolutely necessary in the plan of salvation. Any addiction, however minor or innocent, is serious because it threatens our agency. When we allow any substance to control us, we surrender a part of the freedom for which we fought in the pre earth life. We allow ourselves to be puppets controlled by outside influences rather than agents who act for themselves. This is contrary to the Lord's desire for us. Wherefore the Lord God gave us gave unto man that he should act for himself. This was from that same article about the boy drinking 12 energy drinks a day.

Nemo [00:46:08] That seems to fly in the face of what David A. Bednar said when he said our agency becomes enlarged and we're no longer free to choose not to pay tithing anymore and things like that. The church is perfectly happy to constrain people's agency when it suits them. I Mean, I'm sure if the church could get people addicted to paying tithing, they would. Oh, absolutely. It's not, it's. It's very much how they can moralize these things. It's not about the actual act of addiction or about agency. It's about whether it benefits the church or not.

Meggan Hayes [00:46:43] Yeah.

Nemo [00:46:43] Any final thoughts on the agency?

Meggan Hayes [00:46:45] Well, they didn't used to benefit the church, but they sure do now.

Nemo [00:46:48] Exactly.

Meggan Hayes [00:46:49] Whether it's not. Not the money, because they don't need it, but just the appearance of fitting in and being part of the football crowd. And

Nemo [00:46:58] we've got Diet Coke addict, very apt name, coming in hot with this comment. This is insane. Monster is sponsoring byu. My, how the tables have turned. Someone hold my Alani, which I happened to, I happen to know is another energy drink. Yeah, well done.

Meggan Hayes [00:47:15] I didn't know that one, but yes.

Nemo [00:47:17] Yeah. Energy drinks have become a big thing. It was water bottles, like everyone, like reusable water bottles was like a huge trend. And then companies realized, oh, we can only resell people like one of those, so they start making loads of colors. Right. We can sell people more of those. But then they just realized, well, actually, why don't we just sell people drinks? That's. People will just keep buying those in perpetuity. So it's just a better commodity to sell, really, in the golden age of capitalism in which we live. So next story by our favorite man, our favorite reporter, a legend in his own right, Tad Walsh, ladies and gentlemen, with a story. This one tell us.

Tad Walsh on the Church Beat

Meggan Hayes [00:47:58] I'm sorry, I. I get the church beat in my email. And so this one is not published on Deseret News yet. It will be. It might be by now, but it wasn't yesterday. So this came from. I subscribed to the church beat by Walch because I'm a glutton for punishment. So the church.

Nemo [00:48:17] So people don't have to. Right. That's what.

Meggan Hayes [00:48:19] Absolutely. I'm taking one for the team. You're welcome. It's wonderful. The Church of Jesus Christ could own Martin's Cove if a Wyoming group's proposed land swap works. Now that title, I think is. And we'll talk about this just a little bit. He's chosen his words. So Martins Cove is a well known spot, I think for some in Mormon history because it's where the handcart companies were stopped and dying when they were quote, unquote, rescued. I. I've read Devil's Gate recently and I. The rescue isn't as glorious as I was made to believe. A lot of people still died after they were rescued. But Martin's Cove was funny how hypothermia

The Church of Jesus Christ Could Own Martin's Cove

Nemo [00:49:04] doesn't just go away.

Guest 4 [00:49:06] No.

Guest 2 [00:49:06] You know.

Meggan Hayes [00:49:07] No. Well, in the rescue was, was botched and people got halfway and, and then didn't keep going and yeah, it was a mess. But Martin's Cove is part of all of that lore, as my children would say. And the church has wanted to buy it for a really long time and they get pushback every time. And so now this Wyoming group is a nonprofit that was set up to try and get the church ownership of Martin's Cove.

Nemo [00:49:38] Right.

Meggan Hayes [00:49:38] And I, I think it's just a way for the church to, to get the land without it looking like the church is the one doing it in

Nemo [00:49:47] the, in the same way that they get someone else to buy the Hoffman documents. In the same way they work through other like subsidiaries. Like if you try and look at the church as an organization, just the amount of sub companies and subsidiaries and blah, blah. Right. It's. Yeah, that, that thing that they do. So it would not surprise me if that Wyoming group was in some way funded and directly involved with the church.

Meggan Hayes [00:50:11] Yeah. It's such a new non profit that I couldn't look at the financials because they haven't had to report them yet. But a lot of the members are LDs of the group.

Nemo [00:50:22] Okay. All right. So even if they're not like paid out by the church, whatever, they're certainly friendly to the church's position, I think.

Meggan Hayes [00:50:29] Yeah, absolutely.

Nemo [00:50:30] Fair to say. Okay, so what, what's the proposal? What is that?

Wyoming Friends for Martin's Cove Land Swap

Meggan Hayes [00:50:35] So we'll go through. Yeah, the, the proposal that they're, that they have now a Wyoming nonprofit. Wyoming Friends for Martin's Cove is proposing a land swap. The church would exchange 933 acres of nearby ranch land for the 933 acre Martin Cove property. The proposal would require congressional approval and it has always required congressional approval because it's federal. It's public land. It's federal land.

Nemo [00:51:02] Right.

Meggan Hayes [00:51:02] So the. Yeah.

Nemo [00:51:05] So the ranch land is federal land or the Martin's Cove property is federal.

Meggan Hayes [00:51:08] The Martin's Cove property is the ranch land the church owns and they wanted.

Nemo [00:51:12] So the church was leasing the ability to torture their teenagers by making them reenact on that land for 25 years. Ish. So the church leased it from the government. Right,

Meggan Hayes [00:51:28] yeah, that. The next slide says that because this isn't the first time the church has tried to buy the land.

Nemo [00:51:35] Okay.

Meggan Hayes [00:51:36] Yeah. In 2002, the church tried to purchase Martin's Cove. But the proposal failed after critics objected to transferring a federally owned historic site to a private religious organization. Instead, Congress approved a 25 year lease in 2003 for about $16,000 per year, allowing the church to manage the site while the federal government retained ownership. So the church has a visitor center there and various little like monuments where they explain Mormon history.

Nemo [00:52:09] Sure.

Meggan Hayes [00:52:10] And they've been. Go ahead. Oh, well, they've been managing it for quite some time and they would love to own it. And they do. They have some of the trek companies. So when the young adults, the. Not young adults. Young, they say young men and young women in the church, but I don't like that because they're children or teenagers. So when the teenagers dress up as pioneers and they push handcarts, they'll stop or start or have part of their journey in this area in the Martin's Cove area. So it is a significant place for the church, not just because of what happened with the pioneers in the 1800s, but that's.

Nemo [00:52:47] The two hand cart companies got stuck in the snow and they nearly all died before they were rescued. That's what Ryan Scott is asking here.

Meggan Hayes [00:52:54] Yes, yes, that's Martin's Cove, is that spot. Yes.

Nemo [00:52:58] So it's important to the church for that.

Meggan Hayes [00:53:00] But also, but also they have teenagers reenact the hand cart companies coming across the plains. And Martin's Cove is an area where they stop and they have, you know, firesides and they talk about what happened to the 1856 handcart companies. And yeah, they maintain a visitor center there and different monuments where they talk about Mormon history as it relates to the site.

Nemo [00:53:25] And I think if we look at how the church has treated the Kirtland site, and I think we're going to see that develop over the next few years because right now they have agreements with Community of Christ that it has to kind of stay open. I think once those agreements sort of go, I do wonder whether we will see the church's narrative shift, whether we'll see access reduced. And I think, I think what I'm getting at here is that I understand the reluctance of people to have the church completely own a federal historic site. Because when the church has a chance to control the narrative about these places and when they have a chance to take full ownership of these places, we do see transparency decrease. And that's a problem for everyone. You know, if the church, the church doesn't own the Mountain Meadows massacre site, which has forced them to have to reconcile with what happened there. Because people, you know, the People that do run the site are free to put accurate information on the plaques. So the church has to kind of reconcile with the monuments and with what went on. If the church owned that site, I wouldn't be surprised if we just. I mean, if they had always owned it, you know, if they owned it now, they'd start to deal with it. But if they had always owned it, the. It wouldn't be as well known what went down there, essentially.

Meggan Hayes [00:54:36] Yeah. They would tell the version that I heard growing up in the church where these pioneers took their handcarts because of faith. And it was really hard, but it strengthened their faith. And they were rescued in this angelic rescue. And then they all went happily ever after to Salt Lake. And, you know, it was beautiful until the seagulls saved them from the bugs eating their crops. You know, I mean, it just. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it just. It was this very beautiful, well crafted narrative. And the more I learn about those things, the less those narratives line up with what reality was.

Nemo [00:55:18] There were some people who were unhappy about the church even having a lease over the site. Right. We have a lawsuit in 2005.

Meggan Hayes [00:55:25] Yeah. So in 2002, they attempted to purchase the land, and then it failed and they got their lease. And then in 2005, the ACLU sued over the lease, arguing that Martins Cove is a public historic site and that the federal government had given the LDS church special treatment. Their concerns were that visitors entered through the church's visitor center and received an LDS interpretation of the site's history. Some non LDS visitors said they felt unwelcome on public land. The lawsuit also argued the least favored one religious viewpoint over the others. So just what you were saying. People went there and they're like, well, I have ancestors who came through this site and they weren't Mormon. And why aren't we talking about them? Yeah, why is this site just for the LDS folks and their ancestors?

Nemo [00:56:12] And so that does raise a question, as you've so aptly titled this slide. Who gets to tell the story of Martin's Cove? Is this a video or. No, no, no.

Who Gets To Tell the Story of Martin's Cove?

Guest 3 [00:56:22] Just.

Meggan Hayes [00:56:22] It was just a question that I had at the end. That's what's curious about it.

Guest 4 [00:56:27] Yes.

Nemo [00:56:28] Yeah.

Meggan Hayes [00:56:29] Yeah. I never did trek. I somehow missed, like, they only did it every other year, and I wasn't doing it.

Nemo [00:56:36] I didn't do it either. Something about. For me to reenact Trek, I would have had to go to Liverpool or Swansea or Southampton, get on a boat, go to the East Coast, United States, get on A steamer down one of the rivers, get to sort of Nauvoo or somewhere like that and then do Trek, which, if you want to see me do that in a video over on my channel, let's see if we can make that happen. But, yeah, I think that would be a little too much for British teenagers to get involved with on the. Sort of. On the yearly. So who gets to tell the story of Martin's Cove? Well, if the church had their way, they. They would. We have a lovely comment here from hopeful 3338, Meggan and Nemo. Great news combo. Thank you for your work bringing news to our wild church and culture. When you step back, you see how wild and crazy all this really is. It used to feel so normal. And that. That is the thing. You know, the church wants to normalize these stories. They want to normalize their way of telling these stories. They want it to seem mainstream. And I think that's what that complaint in that lawsuit brings out. It's like, well, this isn't the only way of looking at this story. Right.

Should We Reenact Martin's Cove?

Meggan Hayes [00:57:51] Yeah, I. It's much more interesting and beautiful and diverse. Stepping outside of the church and listening to the other stories that I didn't even know existed before.

Nemo [00:58:08] Yeah.

Meggan Hayes [00:58:08] Like, who else went through Martin Sco? What are their stories? The. And. And the people who went through there, the Mormon pioneers who went through Martin's Cove. What are their actual stories? They weren't polished and. And pretty. They were gritty and devastating and they had feelings, and a lot of that was covered up with this shiny faith. You know, we. They. Their toes fell off and people died. But faith, you guys, let's just focus on the faith. Like, it's a lot less interesting.

Nemo [00:58:44] Yeah. Well, a final note there. I'm being told that I should do a trek from UK and go as a character, maybe Clayton. So watch this space.

Meggan Hayes [00:58:56] Should we. Should we reenact Trek with ex Mormon? Post Mormon, My goodness.

Nemo [00:59:04] I would. I would love to do. I mean, the church would. Would try and stop this. I would love to do like a bus tour of church historical sites for eczemas. So we go around, we're very respectful. We look at all the sites. And then we get back on the bus and I get a microphone. I'm like, right, so here's what really happened. And then we have. We have a chat. But anyway, that's for another time. Let's look at the church trying to argue that men and women are the same in the church. Don't you know?

Amy A. Wright on Women in the Church

Meggan Hayes [00:59:30] Yeah, I'm Surprised you didn't know by

Nemo [00:59:32] a woman who isn't paid for her job when all of her male contemporaries are. But we'll gloss over that point, I suppose. Walk us through this.

Meggan Hayes [00:59:41] So this is just a screenshot from. This is Amy A. Wright. She is a counselor in. Not for very much longer, but in the. That's my dogs. Excuse that. In the general primary presidency. And this is from her Instagram, came out this week. The. The quote that I isolated there at the top. Most of what men and women do in the church is the exact same. And then the video is four minutes long, but I broke it up into little pieces so we can talk about little portions of why she did this video and how she went about answering a question. Not even. Well, maybe a question, but yeah, something that she was presented.

Nemo [01:00:18] Okay, let's watch when this loads. Is that right? There we go.

Guest 4 [01:00:29] Yeah. About how speaking in general conference is really but a fraction of what general officers are called and set apart to do. We're sent all over the world to teach and testify of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We meet with humanitarian leaders, religious leaders from other faith traditions, as well as political leaders and government officials.

Meggan Hayes [01:00:54] Okay, so was that. Was that slide 28? Because that wasn't the first clip.

Nemo [01:00:57] That was 29. 28. Oh, yeah, I want to work. Oh, no, here's 28.

Guest 4 [01:01:04] I had a sister ask me if she could share with me some notes that her son took during general conference. As I was looking at the notes, I noticed at the top of the page, it said men with a bunch of tally marks. And then next to it was women with two tally marks. I lovingly put my arm around her and asked if she knew how much I loved her. She said that she felt that love. And then I asked if it was okay if we had a teaching moment. And she said she would appreciate that.

Meggan Hayes [01:01:35] So that is how she sets up the video.

Nemo [01:01:39] Oh, I'm so glad we went back for that.

Meggan Hayes [01:01:41] Yes.

Nemo [01:01:42] Yeah. Okay. So that. That thing always reminds me of this girl has noticed a genuine disparity here. Rather than address it, she goes like, you know I love you, right? So straight away, starting in. That's how a lot of abusive people start. The way they deal with people who are about to find out what's going on isn't to their liking. Just. Just firstly remind her that I love you so much. And this is going to be a teaching moment. I'm going to teach you something. What could you possibly teach me that undermines the very real observation that far more men are speaking than women. You can try and justify it. You can try explain why that might be the case, which she's probably going to go on to do here, which is why we get that next one of her going. We're sent all over the world to meet religious leaders, but the, the. What I assume was Islamic leader. We have no footage of her actually going up and shaking his hand or interacting with him. Which is interesting because, you know, that is another religion where men and women have very separate roles. And so I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't actually meet with that leader potentially. But yeah, this teaching moment of like, oh, but we're so important, we do so much the same. Doesn't address. And I doubt she will address the underlying fact here, which is more men speak a conference than women.

Meggan Hayes [01:02:59] I found it interesting that she. So she's talking to a woman and the woman mentions that it was her son who noticed the discrepancy, which I thought was really. Yeah, yeah, her son was the one who made the tallies. But, but she is talking to a woman about it. And I just, I thought that was really interesting. But yes, she points out. Yeah, points out. This is what my son noticed. And Amy, just like you said, is not going to address that. I mean, we could take bets and not watch the rest of the video and take, you know, tallies from everyone who hasn't seen it and say, is she going to address the discrepanc? And I think we would all guess that she's not going to.

Nemo [01:03:44] We have a super chat. I just need to read real quick. Which tells me that if I cosplay as Clayton, I'll have to marry my sister in law. And so with that, I'm out. Good game, everyone. Good game. But that one is now over. Yeah. Should we watch the next clip?

"He's Invited Me to His Tour"

Meggan Hayes [01:04:01] Yes. Do you want to watch the one we already watched? Because that's the order. Or do you want to skip it and go to that?

Nemo [01:04:05] We'll. We'll skip it. I think we've summarized that. She said, you know, conference isn't actually that important and we do loads of other stuff. Cool, fine.

Meggan Hayes [01:04:14] Right. I wrote down. Let's see. It would be akin to someone saying there are very few women on the Supreme Court versus and then someone answering, oh, that's okay. Women contribute to society in other ways.

Nemo [01:04:28] Yeah, yeah, it is exactly like that. It's not even like, look at how many female lawyers there are though. It's just like, yeah, but women do other stuff.

Guest 2 [01:04:37] Cool.

Nemo [01:04:38] Wasn't the point at Hand, but cool. Fine, I guess.

Meggan Hayes [01:04:43] Thank you for telling us.

Guest 4 [01:04:44] He was on assignment with Elder Rasband for a priesthood leadership conference. And during the leadership session, he and I answered Q and A for almost two hours, many times standing in the pulpit together, teaching and testifying. He's also invited me to conduct meetings when we're on assignment.

Nemo [01:05:04] He's invited you. You went on his tour like this. Just even baked into all that is the fact that she is not equal to that man.

Meggan Hayes [01:05:14] She did not invite him anywhere.

Nemo [01:05:16] No, he's involved. Oh, she's involved. Sorry. But. But they're not equal there at all. So all these.

Meggan Hayes [01:05:26] The agenda.

Guest 3 [01:05:28] Yeah.

Nemo [01:05:28] All these things that women do happen with men's permission is kind of the point I'm trying to get out there. Right. This is all what men allow women to do in the church is what then women do in the church. That's how that.

Meggan Hayes [01:05:39] Yeah. The Relief Society is the largest women women's organization that is run by men.

Nemo [01:05:46] Yes. Yeah. Your thoughts on that clip before we. We move on to the next one.

Trump on Invited Women

Meggan Hayes [01:05:51] Well, that was it. That. That word invited. That was it. That was the. She said a lot of things. That was the word that stood out to me, was I. I got to go on these because I was invited. She didn't plan the trip. She didn't get to invite people. She was allowed to attend.

Nemo [01:06:09] Yeah. Okay, next clip.

Meggan on Diversity in the LDS Church

Guest 4 [01:06:14] I think it's interesting to note that 99 of what men and women do in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the exact same. We teach, we testify, we expound scripture, we serve, we minister to one another, we lead. But 1% by divine design is different. I don't know why it's different, but this I do know. By divine design, men and women are different. So it would make sense that some of the responsibilities that we have in the Kingdom of God would be different. Different is not bad. It is simply different. God loves diversity. We see beautiful diversity in nature, and we see magnificent, purposeful, powerful diversity in people.

Nemo [01:07:09] Well, I mean, if you ask Jacob Hanson, diversity is a cancer that's killing the church, specifically ideological diversity. But, you know, he doesn't care for diversity and he thinks it's a bad thing. So yet another case for church. Apologies, disagreeing with church leaders there, at least in sort of broader principle. But your thoughts on this, Meggan, as a woman in the church or someone that was a woman in the church? It's just that 1% that's different.

Meggan Hayes [01:07:35] She's throwing God under the bus. It's like when they when they run out of other things to say about why there is inequality, they throw God under the bus. God did it. And so I don't know why. And I used to actually have marked in the Tools app on my phone, the LDS Tools app. This talk where a guy stood up and he was presented with church history questions that he couldn't answer and so. Or didn't want to answer. And so instead of answering them, he said, this is what I do know in the Nieboris testimony. And that's what she appealed to, was I, I don't know those things. So let's just ignore it and let's just talk about things that we do understand.

Nemo [01:08:20] Yeah. Which is such a Mormon way to react to a lot of stuff. I think they use the same excuse when it comes to the priesthood ban. It's the whole, like, we don't know why God prohibited black people for over 150 years from entering into the temple and receiving the ordinances of some salvation. We don't know why we blame God. God both gets blamed and then basically shown to be incredibly weak and not powerful by Mormon apologetics all the time. It's like, oh, well, we don't know why God did it, and we know God couldn't have changed it. And you're like, well, hang on, then he's not omnipotent, is he? He's just kind of sort of febrile and weak. And at that point, why. Why are we engaging with a God like that who has no power to make the world any better than it is? But anyway, that gets into a whole branch of philosophy we don't need to get. Yeah, I think she's kind of right. Hot take. I think she's kind of right. 99% of what men and women do, or rather 99% of what 99% of men and women do in the church is give up everything they have for the church and really, really try their best and sacrifice so much of themselves for an organization that doesn't take their issues and concerns seriously. So in that sense, she is right. Men and women do a lot of the same. They all work hard to try and keep this organization going. They all pay their tithing. You know, they're all trying, if you take my point.

Meggan Hayes [01:09:51] Yeah, no, I do. That's. That's true. Because there are a lot of really good people in the church who are just following the rules.

Nemo [01:09:58] Yeah.

Meggan Hayes [01:09:59] You know, they're just doing their best to follow the rules, to do what they've been told because they think that that's what God wants them to do. They're not. They might not even have the idea that there's something outside of that. I had a friend when I was in Young women's, so I was, you know, 12 or 13, and she would always bring up, you know, every couple months or so. Can we just talk about why women don't have the priesthood? And I did not understand why she cared. I didn't understand. Yeah, I do. Things have changed a little bit. I just didn't understand why she cared because I was like, we all have so much to do. Why don't we just stick to what we're told, follow the rules, we'll get to heaven. Yeah. And I think that still happens a lot. And I carried that into adulthood for quite some time.

Nemo [01:10:51] I think 99% of Mormons get hand waved away like this young boy and like his mother. When they have concerns, when they have questions, when they have genuine things that they're approaching and trying to understand, they just get hand waved away. It's fine. It's by divine design. We don't know why, but it is just. It's just different. It's just different. Different but equal. I'm like, is it though? We have. Do we have one more clip from her? Sorry, go on.

Meggan Hayes [01:11:19] Well, I was gonna compare it to polygamy, too. You know, a woman is sealed, and then her husband passes away, and she wants to get sealed to a new person. And you know what's gonna happen? Who are my children sealed to? Who If I cancel that ceiling? I. I don't want to because I really want to be with him in the well, in heaven. It's gonna get figured out.

Nemo [01:11:43] Yeah.

Meggan Hayes [01:11:44] Just.

Nemo [01:11:45] Just be righteous and just deferral of concerns. I don't. It's not that we have answers for these questions, is that these questions shouldn't concern you. And here's why. Yeah. Let's hear the last of what she has to say.

"You Don't Get All the Blessings

Guest 4 [01:12:02] The miracle of it all to me is that 100% of the blessings, all that the Father hath is available equally to both righteous men and women. This truth is found in the scriptures in Doctrine and covenants, section 84, we read. For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth my Father. And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father's kingdom. Therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him. I cannot begin to imagine the definition of all, but this I do know, the greatest of which is eternal life and exaltation. The sacred privilege of returning to live with God the Father and his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, as eternal families, and most specifically, to live the type of life they live. All of this is possible because of Jesus Christ. Having had the sacred privilege of standing at that pulpit, teaching and testifying of Jesus Christ, as well as praying in general conference, I can boldly declare that the greatest prayer of my heart when I walk away is that no one remembers my name, my age, my gender, my race, my calling, that they think less of me and more of Jesus Christ.

Nemo [01:13:42] Oh, and isn't that. I mean, women just wanting to shrink themselves and not wanting to be seen is coming across there. There's so many things. No, he says she can't imagine what all is. Of course you can't. You're a woman in the church because you don't get all the blessings. No way. You're quoting DNC 84D and C 132 shows very clearly there are some things that men are going to get that you're not going to get. Whether you want them or not is a different matter. But again, we move away from this idea of all. She's trying to sell that we get all and then go, but actually the most important ones. I do know that we get. I'm like, well, okay, well, which is it? You get the most important ones or you get all of them? Because if you're saying, oh, I can't imagine the definition of all, what you're trying to provide yourself there, Amy, is wiggle room to get away from having to look at the list of all those blessings and actually determine whether men and women get them equally. And I think she knows full well that if we were to look at those list of blessings, there are some that men get that women don't.

Meggan Hayes [01:14:44] Yeah, well. And she. The original concern was representation. Right. There were the tallies. If we go back to the beginning, this is how many men show up. This is how many women. Her attempt to solve that was salvation. They're just not the same. She's still just not answering the question. She's still not addressing the concern. And whether or not she wants to be seen does not. Also does not address whether women have visibility in the church.

Nemo [01:15:19] Yeah.

Meggan Hayes [01:15:20] As a whole. Yeah.

Nemo [01:15:21] She's like, well, actually, I wish I was seen less. Cool. Good for you. But that, that, like you said, that has no bearing on whether women are actually visible or not.

Meggan Hayes [01:15:32] Yeah, yeah. She didn't address representation.

Nemo [01:15:35] Should we end the show on some lighter news?

Meggan Hayes [01:15:38] Yeah. We have two fun we have some

Nemo [01:15:41] fun, lightweight news to, to wrap out the show. Okay, let's hear it. We have this from Rebecca. There we go.

John Dehlin's No Man Knows My History audiobook

Guest [01:15:51] Exciting news for our friend John de Lind today. The audiobook that he's been working on a project for quite a while has dropped. This is no Man Knows My History by Fawn Brody. I'm sure most of you are familiar with this. It was published originally in 1945 and it gave everybody, I think, the first peek at what the founder of the LDS Church, Joseph Smith, was really all about. A lot of people didn't know a lot of details about polygamy or treasure digging or any of those things until this biography came out. No Man Knows My History. And John Dehlin has lent his voice to this project. He is going to be reading this book. It's over 21 hours long on audiobook, so about the same length as a typical Mormon Stories episode. Anyway, I think you guys are going to want to go to wherever you get your audio podcast and find this book. No Man Knows My history, narrated by Dr. John Dehlin.

Nemo [01:16:51] First thing I said to John when he text me about it was a little bit short, isn't it, John, for you?

Meggan Hayes [01:16:57] Yeah, he could have lengthened that out, I think.

Nemo [01:17:01] I think that's really exciting news that we get an audiobook. I know a lot of people like to listen. They like to consume their material by audiobook. I don't, I'm not one of these literary snobs where you have to read the physical book or anything like that. You know, real books, Kindles, audiobook, whatever it is you like. You know, I think it's good that we have people have access to this now with John's familiar tones.

Meggan Hayes [01:17:27] I know I've listened to so much Mormon stories, I'll just get that and then I'll have to remind myself it's not a Mormon Stories episode. The voice will be very familiar. I actually started reading the book, but I haven't ever finished it. So maybe this will be my time.

Nemo [01:17:40] I mean, here's a sneak. Here's a sneak peek for the audience from Chapter 15 of no Man Knows My History. It would probably sound something like this if you download the audiobook. Poverty Joseph had born before Tiring and beating he had turned to advantage. So there you go. There's a sneak peek there of what it will sound like when John de Lynn narrates the audiobook of no Man Knows My History. Make sure you check that out wherever you can find it. Meggan.

Meggan Hayes [01:18:08] Nemo's impression of John. I Didn't know that was gonna be on the list today, but I'm glad

Nemo [01:18:15] John loves my impression of him. I think. I think that's a confirmed fact at this point. So. Yeah. Okay. And we have one more exciting bit of news. Happy, I guess. What is it?

Sunstone Symposium

Guest 3 [01:18:27] The.

Nemo [01:18:27] The Sunstone equivalent of Advent. It's the week before Sunstone for those who celebrate.

Meggan Hayes [01:18:32] Oh, is it soon? Oh, yeah. Oh. So, yeah, Sunstone symposium is coming up and I am extra excited because I will be attending for my first time.

Nemo [01:18:43] Very exciting.

Meggan Hayes [01:18:44] Have you been before, Nemo?

Nemo [01:18:45] I have never been before, actually. I would love to attend. I've done the symposiums in the uk. I've helped put those on when we've done them here.

Meggan Hayes [01:18:55] Are they a branch of Sunstone there? Is it?

Nemo [01:18:57] Yeah. So Lindsay came over with Brian and they. Yeah, we put on a Sunstone meeting. It was really good fun. But yeah, I've never attended one in Utah, but I hope I will be able to next summer. That would be the goal.

Meggan Hayes [01:19:13] Yeah, that's good. Yeah. I made a goal of going to the Utah Pride Festival this year and did it.

Nemo [01:19:18] So nice goals. Let's have goals achieved. So yeah, that's in Salt Lake City, Utah. July 30 to August the second. Because that's the way around that Americans say the date 2 August 3030 of July to 2 August. That feels much more comfortable in their mouth. And it's starting on the 30th of July at 7pm Analyzing Mormonism is giving away some tickets on her channel. Apparently John is in the chat saying all delin impressions are rude. Yes. I don't know if anyone's got video footage of it, but John once did an impression of me on stage in retaliation to my impression of him at St. George Thrive maybe a year or two ago.

Meggan Hayes [01:20:01] Can we get that in the short.

Guest 4 [01:20:03] The.

Nemo [01:20:03] I don't know. That had the room in stitches. So, yeah, John's impression of me, he captured the level of like depression and. And just, just perfectly a little gloomy. Yeah, it was. It was very gloomy. It's very Eeyore esque, which I think is in many ways my vibe. Yeah. So Sunstone 2026. We've got some great books or some great people. Sorry.

Meggan Hayes [01:20:27] Yeah, these are. I went on to. Yeah, I went on to Facebook and just grabbed some of the images they had of sessions that will be at Sunstone. So this is just a small, very small sampling of the lineup. They'll have there. Some really interesting.

Nemo [01:20:41] So who have Colby Reddish, John Hamer, Nancy Ross, Jeanette Griggs, and then I can't read who the last one is, but it is something to do with Jody Hildebrandt and that's always going to be fascinating. So yeah, get your tickets people, to what is the biggest party in progressive and post Mormonism and active Mormonism. To be fair, a lot of active Mormons at Sunstone, Mormon academics and scholars and people who like to talk about this cool, fun stuff.

Meggan Hayes [01:21:15] I know it's fun because it brings everyone together. I mean, I assume it is. I haven't been there, but I'm going to be and then I will return and report.

Nemo [01:21:22] Yes, well, yeah, quite. I would love to see what the Mormon newscast from Sunstone looks like, but I don't think that's necessarily possible. But the week after we'll be able to report back about how it went and that would be great. So with that, you have been listening to what happens to Mormon stories when John de Lynn steps out of the room. I hope you've all enjoyed it. Meggan, what are your final thoughts on the news this week that we've seen?

Mormon News Podcast Live Chat

Meggan Hayes [01:21:51] Oh, I, well, I, I think the show went wonderfully. I get nervous. Like I say this every time because when I record on my channel on generally unquotable, I sit alone in a room and talk to the camera portion of my phone and then if I say something weird or have too long of a pause, I can just edit it out. So the live shows still feel very new to me. But I love watching the live chat. I love having to kind of think on the spot and get my reactions, even though I'm the one that gathers the news. It's fun having the back and forth conversation because like I said, I'm normally alone. So it's nice to have that back and forth.

Nemo [01:22:29] You never know what I'm going to throw at you, but I try and be nice about it and not throw you too odd of a question about this stuff. I've had a great time. So thank you very much for joining me or for having me on your show rather. And thank you to John for letting me step in and be a co host this week. If you liked this video, there is a button specifically for that somewhere on the user interface in which you're interacting right now to let the YouTube algorithm know that you did indeed like this video and it lets John know that we did a good job, which I think we did. So make sure you subscribe. Make sure you like you subscribe. You go check out generally unquotable over on all the social media places you can find things right? Just yep, that everywhere. Nemo the Mormon, in all the same places. This video is only made possible by monthly donations from the kind viewers at home, you lovely people. So make sure that if you aren't already and you are able to you sign up as a monthly donor to Mormon stories, go to mormonstories.org and there is a donate button there. 5, 10, $20 a month, whatever you can afford. Keeps this alive, keeps all this running and allows us to report on the news every week, which is great fun. I've had a great time. So with that, take care everyone. As John would say, be good to each other, be kind to each other, and we will see you in about a week on another episode of the Mormon News Podcast.