The Band Returns

John Dehlin [00:00:03] Hello everyone, and welcome to another edition of Mormon Stories podcast. This is a special edition of Mormon Stories podcast because we got the band back together.

Carah Burrell [00:00:13] Carah Burrell, this old girl's in the house.

John Dehlin [00:00:16] What the heck are you doing in Mormon Story studio? I thought you. I thought you resigned and left me in Scandal.

Carah Burrell [00:00:22] But when left you on Scandal? No. Bye. I tried, but I didn't. Didn't succeed. Other people took that place for sure. You know, I just pursued my interests and that's taking down real bad guys who get excommunicated from the Mormon Church. John de Lynn, you are not in my sights. Tim Ballard is where I am yet.

John Dehlin [00:00:40] Yes.

Carah Burrell [00:00:41] Yeah, the day is young.

John Dehlin [00:00:42] I have to watch it anyway. It's great to have you, Carah. Today we are here to talk about new Tim Ballard news. And honestly, if you had asked me a month ago, I would have never guessed I would be covering Tim Ballard again on Mormon Stories. I kind of figured he was old news. But Tim Ballard has come back with a vengeance. Some would say he's jumped the shark. Some would say he's leading a full on assault on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And some of you are saying who the freak is Tim Ballard. So we've got a lot to cover tonight, Carah. Right. Remind people who you are and why you're awesome and also why you are an expert on Tim Ballard.

Tim Ballard

Mormon Stories: Timmy Did What?

Carah Burrell [00:01:30] Who I am. My name is Carah Burrell. Sometimes I go by Nuance Ho. I left the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints with my family in 2019 and then started on TikTok, got picked up by John Dillon here and worked at Mormon stories around 2021, 22 and have come back to guest host now and then start started my own podcast. I have two of them. One of them is called Timmy did what? Because I decided to be co conspirators with a fellow by the name of Ryan Fisher who has come on Mormon Stories with me and his daughter to tell his story. It's a great Mormon Stories interview. And Ryan and I collaborated because Ryan used to work for Tim and did a bunch of projects with him. And once everything that we're about to get into happened with Tim Ballard in the fall of 2023, I saw the writing on the wall that this was going to massive story and going to give us a lens into the inner workings of the LDS Church of and and you know, institutions within the state of Utah with Sean Reyes being the Attorney General and Tim Ballard really removed the curtain from a lot of the mystery. So it's Been a special interest of mine to talk about Tim Ballard on my podcast Timmy did what? That's on my YouTube channel under Carah Burrell where I talk about things related to my post Mormon faith journey.

John Dehlin [00:02:52] And have you shed the nuance of Brand?

Carah Burrell [00:02:55] Did I what?

John Dehlin [00:02:55] Have you kind of let go of the nuance. So Brand.

Carah Burrell [00:02:58] Not that I've let it go. I will always be the nuance. So whenever I'm trying to make a nuanced thing, whether in normal conversation or on camera, I go listen. I'm the nuance hoe after all. I am a for nuance. But I do try to run a non profit and be respectful at times. But you can call me people shout at me Nuance Ho in public. So it's never going to go away. Yeah, okay, whatever you want to call me.

John Dehlin [00:03:22] But now, but now it's care barrel on YouTube.

Carah Burrell [00:03:24] Care barrel on YouTube is where I put up my ramblings on these subjects.

John Dehlin [00:03:29] Well, fun. Well, we've got a ton of cool stuff to get into. We want to just request please everyone subscribe to Mormon stories like it hit the bell comment and also while you're at it, also subscribe and like cares channels as well. We're both on Instagram, on tick tock, on YouTube, Facebook as well. We're. We're in all the places.

Guest [00:03:52] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:03:53] So like and subscribe at all the places. Thanks for everyone who makes this possible, especially our donors. And you have donors, right?

Carah Burrell [00:04:01] I have donors to my Patreon, to my non profit. You know, anybody who throws a little cash, a little fuel on the fire always helps. So yeah, head over to my channel after this and I have so many playlists and other things about Tim Ballard if you're interested.

John Dehlin [00:04:17] And then we are live streaming and so what we're going to do is we're going to take super chats. So if you want us to read your comment or question please via YouTube, submit it as a super chat and we'll make that'll allow us to see it and we'll make sure and answer it. So let's back up. Let's begin with kind of your overview of who Tim Ballard is and why. Because I'm sure I bet half our audience has never heard of Tim Ballard, honestly.

Tim Ballard vs The LDS Church

Carah Burrell [00:04:47] Yeah, those lucky ducks. But like I said, it is such a fascinating. He's a microcosm of so many things within the church. So you'll understand how the church works better. You'll understand how narcissists work better, honestly, by studying Tim Ballard. So we could put the first slide up on the screen.

John Dehlin [00:05:03] Well, I may not show. I may not show all the slides.

Carah Burrell [00:05:06] You don't want to show my. My perfect slide.

John Dehlin [00:05:07] But yeah, no, let's go and show up for a sec. But I, I think people would rather look at you than the slide. That's my opinion. But yeah, here's the slide for those who are interested. Go for it.

Carah Burrell [00:05:18] Tim Ballard versus the deep church. So Tim is known as a former U. S. Homeland security operative who turned into a anti child trafficking crusader. He's the founder of operation underground railroad, sometimes referred to as our. He's the inspiration behind the film sound of freedom that came out in 2023. He's where he's also known as the guy who. Former employees have alleged sexual harassment, spiritual manipulation, grooming and misconduct. There have been investigations by Davis county attorney's office and the FBI into his actions. And then there are lawsuits alleging tactics that he calls the couple's ruse where women pose as his wife and operations and. And abuse took place. And then most notably, he was denounced by the LDS church, called out for morally unacceptable behavior and using an apostle's name to his personal benefit, and then excommunicated from the LDS church. So that is a day that kind of lives in infamy. When that happened, when this announcement and announcement happened via vice news and then distributed across different publications in. In 2023. And that was the day that I paid attention and said, I am hit. Bring my life to this wagon. And I'm glad that I did. So Tim has denied his excommunication for these last two years and now he's publicly announcing that he has been excommunicated and we'll get into his new tactics, his new shift and tone, why he's coming out so hard against the church. So.

John Dehlin [00:06:52] Yeah, and because we want to be responsible. Thank you for that. And because we want to be responsible and because he's waxing litigious, I'm just going to give a disclaimer that everything today on this entire podcast I'm going to place under the category of alleged. Because we don't pretend to know what Tim really did or didn't do. You know, we don't know what is true or not true within the documents or the witnesses. We're just going to be sharing our best understanding of what we've heard, of what we've read and of what's been alleged. And, and in no way. And I'm even going to speak for you, Carah, like, if that's okay. Like in no way can we claim to really, really know for sure? Pretty much anything. So we're just going to be giving our best understanding of what's been reported. Is that okay to say?

Carah Burrell [00:07:42] I love that you said that. I have taken down entire week's worth of videos because I was like, I don't want to be sued and I'll re edit that and change how I. Yeah. So yes, a lot of what we're going to get into today is honestly just the facts of what he's been saying. That is already crazy towns enough.

John Dehlin [00:07:57] Yeah. So there's a world where a universe where Tim Ballard never had sex with anyone but his wife and never molested anyone, never abused anyone. That's not what the allegations seem to be. But like, you know, we'll let you, the viewer, listener, decide what you think or want to believe. If I want to recap that great slide you did just for people that can't think as fast as you're able to read a slide. So Tim Ballard used to work for Homeland Security. At some point he creates this nonprofit and he starts claiming that he's almost like parachuting into these third world countries with these crews, that he's rescuing kids from child sex trafficking. He's filming these jumps all along, as I understand it, he's hiring like CrossFit buddies and women to go with him on these jumps. He's gone to Latin America. He's gone to the, you know, what's the Caribbean. Right. Several, you know, of these jumps. He films it all. He makes it look like he's really rescuing, you know, sex workers and or children. He starts a nonprofit. He's earning all this money. He starts to release video footage and even TV shows and, and, you know, possible Stream series. And by the early 2000s is kind of a local Utah celebrity, kind of embraced more by the, by the conservative right. But he's, you know, again, like you said, attorney. Former Utah Attorney General Sean Reyes seems to partner with him, fundraise with him. And he's kind of the darling of the Utah. Of Utah and of the Utah. Right. Specifically for several years. Right. And we're talking tens of millions of dollars he. He raised through Operation Underground Railroad. Correct.

Guest [00:10:07] Correct.

John Dehlin [00:10:07] And he did all that after publishing several books, trying to claim connections between America, U.S. founding fathers and the, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and. Or the Book of Mormon. Right, Correct.

Carah Burrell [00:10:23] So a lot of the stuff that we've talked about with Rod Meldrum and the Book of Mormon, geography and evidence. He got his footing first with that crowd, that's where my co host Ryan Fisher first met him. Is trying to help Mormons understand that the church is even more true because the this is the Book of Mormon is what the founding fathers were pointing to when they are talking about like this new land that we are setting apart by God, all that manifest destiny things. And so tying like this type of white nationalism with Mormonism with Book of Mormon geography is how he first got his foothold. Became friends with Glenn Beck, he platformed him Tony Robbins and then became good friends with M. Russell Ballard, the senior apostle of the Mormon Church and started writing books Deseret books bestselling author with with that type of narrative going on before our really happened. So already had a foothold within the Mormon audience and was able to translate that audience into this his rogue undercover work by doing missions in Haiti to save this little boy named Garthy Marty and tried to make a six series miniseries film out of it. Couldn't get distribution and and opened and re edited it into a feature film. So he's able to make audiences believe that he is a certain type of all American poster boy. And that is coupled with the church wanting him to be that poster boy to bring more converts into the church ultimately. So you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours kind of arrangement from the beginning

John Dehlin [00:12:03] and he absolutely was it seemed to be besties with former president of the LDS Church's Quorum of the twelve Apostles M. Russell Ballard again desert book sold gazillion. I'm exaggerating of his books. Can you describe what would be your understanding of what was really going on in many of these interventions or jumps like he would make it look like he was actually rescuing children and or sex workers. How would you describe your impression of what was usually really going on?

Tim Ballard's "Reveal" Jumping

Carah Burrell [00:12:39] So this is not just my impression. I've done a lot of investigative work. You could say I have a video on my YouTube channel where I go into his first big jump in Haiti with this boy named Garthy Marty. So for example what he would do was go to a place where there's some tragedy happening, pull on people's heartstrings. There is a legitimate little Mormon boy who's around 3 years old in Haiti that was kidnapped from his LDS ward building. Russell Ballard heard about it because the boy's father was the Mormon bishop there at the time. And Russell Ballard reaches out to Tim Ballard and says can you go and try to find this boy? And that's where our was kind of started. And so when you Tim however the way that it, it's kind of confusing but the, the our was set up as a non profit entity that was the funnel. The. There was a Slave Stealers LLC was a for profit venture set up with a different entertainment company to provide the footage for our. So our would fundraise off of the footage of a for profit entity so that they would, could make money off of these badass, you know, storming into orphanages and you know, taking down the sex traffickers. And so the Mormon Church was aware of that, knew about it. Again my co host, Ryan Fisher, he originally was there to help Tim Ballard set up this, this TV show for National Geographic. But because the TV show that Tim Ballard originally was going to do wasn't going to be broadcast in the United States of America, but elsewhere he scrapped that and he, he did this entertainment company with this Slave Stealers llc. So if that makes sense so far. So it was from the very get go, I hate to break people's hearts, but it was set up to be an entertainment show with Tim Ballard's backing as a supposed CIA operative and you know, with, with his, with his credentials behind him. But as I was, as I've explained in my, my YouTube video, what he was really doing was going in and selectively editing things so that it looks like people said things that they didn't and that he was in places that he didn't. And his actual intelligence that he had in these operations was apparently a, as it's come out, a psychic named Janet Russin. So he's flying in helicopters, he's telling this boy's father that you know, we're going to go up to this hillside. This is where our intelligence has told us that your, your son needs to be rescued from. This is where the kidnappers took him when really his intelligence was phony and he was able to make an entire movie out of selectively editing, editing these things, never actually finding the boy. But the story of you know, we're still going to find him, he still has that inspirational story to fundraise off of, was actually all he, all he was really after finding. Finding Garthy was not the mission, but the myth is what was driving him forward. When in actuality like there's the, the, the father of Garthy, he ran an orphanage. It's actually a lot darker than people would imagine that Tim Ballard shut down one orphanage that he said was sex trafficking kids that wasn't and moved those kids into Garthy's father's orphanage that then made a profit off of selling those kids and then as it's been reported from our, who was able to, like if you imagine our has its chief orphanage that they fundraise off of, it's just for show because that actual orphanage is run with maggots in the food and all of the teenager, not all the teen, sorry, handful of the teenagers ended up pregnant and raped at the hands of the orphan director that was, you know, the orphanage directors who were supposed to be caring for these children. So Tim can fundraise off of some horrible situations. Wherever there's chaos and mayhem, he will fundraise off of it and take that money and, and move on to his next project and leave people in the wake of whatever he feels is not going to get reported. But all of these different kind of things have come out. So that's, that's my long explanation of how Tim will go in with cameras and leave people in destitute, horrible situations. And that is one example of many.

John Dehlin [00:16:57] So you'd watch one of these movies or the YouTube footage or on the streaming services and it looks like all these, you know, all these paramilitary guys are parachuting in and breaking into a brothel and isolating the sex workers and rescuing children or rescuing sex workers. And like the, allegedly the local governments of the Latin American countries or the Caribbean countries would all be grateful. And it was almost like they invited him in and were grateful to help catch bad guys when they somehow couldn't do it themselves. Right?

Carah Burrell [00:17:34] Yeah. And he specifically goes into these other countries because they don't have the same type of due process rules that our country does have and corruption runs rampant. He's able to make the movie that he needs to make to fulfill his purposes. And whether or not kids get saved, he, he essentially doesn't need those numbers because he can inflate them. People aren't going to check into them.

John Dehlin [00:17:57] Yeah. But again, back here in Utah, he's raising tens of millions of dollars. He ends up, somehow he ends up on a punk podcast with Donald Trump while Trump is, is like running for president. Right. Like he, he won the audience of, of old of President Donald Trump.

Carah Burrell [00:18:14] Right. And that, that has to do with, you know, border security things and talking about like if Biden's DHS had 200, 000 missing kids come through the border, that speaks to a certain audience and apparently Tim Ballard and Trump are the ones to fix it.

John Dehlin [00:18:29] So we got our first super chat. Thank you so much. Quantum OCD says dang Timmy's story sounds like more of a swindle than Joseph Smith's. Almost care. Were you, were you initially interested in parallels between Tim Ballard and Joseph Smith? I'm just curious.

Carah Burrell [00:18:48] Yeah, I have a really funny tick tock that I've done before on that subject where, you know, once upon a time Joseph Smith did X, Y and Z. And then once upon a time, a descendant long, long later. Tim Ballard did X, Y and Z later. And because he acted. The punchline is as. Because he acted so much like Joseph Smith, now he wants to be a Catholic. And then there's. There's Tim Ballard at some Catholic events that since he's been kicked out of the church.

John Dehlin [00:19:16] Yeah.

Carah Burrell [00:19:16] So.

John Dehlin [00:19:18] Okay, thanks for that. Please send any super chats y' all want. And we really appreciate that. We are paying care for her time. So super chats are helpful. Okay. So I, I got interested in Tim Ballard because it smelt a lot the con. You know, it smelled a lot like QAnon.

On Tim Ballard's QAnon Conspiracy

Carah Burrell [00:19:36] Sure.

John Dehlin [00:19:37] Just, just there at the time QAnon was on the rise. They were accusing Oprah and Tom Hanks and any Hollywood, a lister of not just, you know, being pedophiles, but of like killing and eating children in their hearts and extracting from their organs for products that could be used as to make their skin have less wrinkles. Like, it just, it seemed like Tim Ballard and our was writing the conspiracy theory QAnon train and there just didn't seem to be evidence. So like, I was alarmed by that. But that wasn't even the worst part. I mean, it was the worst because he was siphoning money that could have gone to legitimate nonprofits to legitimately help kids that are sex trafficked or sex workers that are sex trafficked. And we all agree that's real, right, Carol? Like, yes, there is sex trafficking and there is sex workers and there is trafficking of sex workers. And it's a real problem and it deserves attention. Correct?

Carah Burrell [00:20:49] Release the Epstein files. Yes.

John Dehlin [00:20:51] Yeah, Right. So that's real. And so what we thought was that he was just misdirecting money from legitimate non profits to himself to get rich. But that wasn't the worst of it, right?

Carah Burrell [00:21:07] No, that's not the worst of it. I mean, from what you just described, what I hear you say is legitimate problems exist within our country and within our world of sex trafficking. Who are the people, what are the institutions? And how do we combat this problem? And how experts have, from the time the Sound of Freedom came out, complained and, you know, risen alarm bells of how Tim Ballard's tactics to combat it have differed from what we know is actually helpful you know, from. From preventing sex trafficking to actually combating it. Tim Ballard was always trying to point to those people as. From the beginning, as. As being against actually stopping it and being for the sex traffickers. So his narrative is usually always, if you're against me, you're for the sex traffickers. When we're just having. Trying to have an adult conversation about the best way to allocate, you know, tens of millions of dollars to this cause that we should all care about. But he's always had a very different tactic, and that, you know, leads into his. His actual tactics of how he supposedly rescues the kids and the abuse that follows.

Tim Ballard on Sex Trafficking

John Dehlin [00:22:17] Yeah. So let's quickly talk about the. And we'll probably talk about this. Are we going to show the clips of the. Of allegations of sexual abuse and harassment

Tim Ballard on His Excommunication

Carah Burrell [00:22:25] that I was saving for the end?

John Dehlin [00:22:27] Okay, okay, okay. So it gets worse. So we don't need to talk about that now other than to say that after all this questionable behavior, then a bunch of stuff comes out about him potentially being literally sexually harassing and. Or abusing and. Or assaulting women.

Carah Burrell [00:22:44] Right, right. So today's presentation is more about Tim Ballard's excommunication and him trying to still be the hero in the story to Mormon audiences saying that he was excommunicated. That's okay, though. Church filled with satanic pedophiles and abusers. The best things in the world get corrupted, though. However, I, Tim Ballard, have the most faithful testimony I've ever had. This shouldn't hurt your testimony that the church is filled with evil infiltrators. I was excommunicated. That's okay. Still faithful. And how he works his theology to believe in this new deep state conspiracy and causing a lot of shockwaves through the Mormon community calling out satanic ritual sex abuse.

John Dehlin [00:23:34] So it will get there for sure.

Carah Burrell [00:23:35] Yes.

John Dehlin [00:23:36] So he came out with this movie right before his undoing called Sound of Freedom. Last I checked, it's grossed hundreds of millions of dollars in the international box office. And he was set to run for U.S. senate, which I know we're going to be talking about in a second, but. But he was set to run in the Republican primary for U.S. senate before the last minute that got scuttled. So, like, there's a universe where if the right opposition hadn't emerged, Tim Ballard would be one of the two US Senators from Utah right now. I think he was very close to that. That's my opinion. Would you agree?

Carah Burrell [00:24:13] Yeah. If he maybe kept his hands to himself and consulted with actual experts on how to combat sex trafficking. We might be in a different situation, but his ego did get the best of him, I would say.

John Dehlin [00:24:26] Yeah, yeah. Okay. So that's, that's, that's a great intro. Thanks for helping me with that, Carah, again. Oh, really quickly, we have another super chat. This is from Omar Kayam. Thank you, Omar, for the super chat, Carah. He's asking, how are true believing Mormons coping with Tim Ballard? When I came out, you know, speaking out against Tim Ballard, I got a heap of opposition from believing Mormons that were super mad at me. And this is even before the sexual allegations. This was purely based on what I felt was fraudulent, you know, interventions overseas. So believing Mormons were big fans. Even apologetic Mormon YouTube channels like Word Radio were super big Tim Ballard fans. Really quickly, Carah, how would you answer Omar's question about how true believe you Mormons feel about Tim Ballard?

How True Believing Mormons Feel About Tim Ballard

Carah Burrell [00:25:20] Now I can just go off of the comment section from Troy abel's show on YouTube called Last Dispensation. It's a podcast. We'll be playing some clips from. And when Tim Ballard goes and explains his new theology that we're going to get into today, I would say it's about 50, 50 of people who are engaging with his arguments still. There's, there's, you know, Tim Ballard's Facebook page is full of Mormons who are not quite in the know. And they see Tim Ballard has some announcement. And there was one woman who's like, oh, I hope he's announcing that he's going on a senior mission. And it's like, okay. People who are not plugged in are not quite aware, but people who, who are watching Tim Ballard on this podcast, last dispensation, about 50% of them in the comment section are like, oh, I see what you mean. I've been preparing for this day. This is the, the deep state church. This is when, you know, things break away. And the other half are like, it's clear that Tim has, you know, probably betrayed his covenants. The church probably had a very good reason for excommunicating him, and he should probably go away now. So it depends on, you know, how plugged in somebody is. But do with that information what you will. I would say, you know, the average Mormon who thinks about Tim Ballard, they're like, he's that great guy who saves kids. You know, in my comment section, it's like, he saved kids. What have you ever done with your life? So, unfortunately, most people are not plugged in until today.

LDS Church Announces Tim Ballard's Miscounting

John Dehlin [00:26:38] Got it. All right. Okay. So when at some point Vice News started releasing articles about Tim, Rolling Stone magazine I think did some. You started covering him pretty extensively. Obviously we did. And I think we were all shocked when we thought that M. Russell Ballard, senior Mormon Apostle and Tim Ballard were like besties and homies. We all were shocked to hear that the Mormon Church issued a denouncement. Do you want to cover that, Carah?

Carah Burrell [00:27:09] Yeah. So if you want to go to my second slide, if you want to put it on screen or not. This is what made waves around the world. In rare public rebuke. LDS Church condemns Tim Ballard for morally Unacceptable Behavior. So it was on September 15, 2023 that the LDS Church issued a statement where it regarded Tim Ballard's actions as morally unacceptable. And it was a big question mark of well, what does morally unacceptable behavior mean? They also said that he used M. Russell Ballard's name for his personal and financial benefit. And it's like, well that could mean a lot of things. What is in that? That's what my investigations over the last two years have been about. So the statement said that Tim betrayed their friendship, referencing EM Russell Ballard. And then the church removed the then existing content promoting Tim Ballard and our from existing LDS.org and Deseret News publications at the time. And then sources reported that Tim Ballard was publicly denounced and privately excommunicated. And that's in reference to you, John, which is the clip we'll get to next. And then the church though did not label Tim as excommunicated in the statement, which it's such a strong rebuke that it pretty much, it's like that's gonna make you untangible for having a calling at your local ward, you know, but so Tim disputed at the time, for the last two years that he was excommunicated. And now he has failed in his efforts to appeal that excommunication after two years. And that's part of why he's kind of going nuclear. And Tim has a new worldview that we're going to get into where he labels his mission to save kids, his enemies that want to stop him from doing that and his Mormon theology and the Mormon Church are all combined into one common enemy. And now he's like using that as leverage that if people doubt, let him back in the church or start, you know, retract the statement that the church made. If they don't retract it, then he has some kind of, you know, earth shattering things to do with satanic ritual abuse or like possibly suing the church that if they don't do what he says, that he's got some leverage against them, that. That he still wants to be the hero of the story.

John Dehlin [00:29:40] Yeah, basically. And as someone, one of the rare people in the past 20 years that actually has been both excommunicated from the Mormon Church, meaning me, and that the church issued a public statement about. I was surprised because it actually. Oftentimes they'll excommunicate people but never mention them, and they'll say it's a private matter. It's a private matter between the person and their bishop and their stake president. And, you know, Absolutely. Almost never do they issue a statement again. They did with me, but they almost never do. So we were all pretty shocked that the church took that length. I could name a dozen apostates excommunicated from the Mormon Church in the past 20 years where the church. Two dozen. Where the church did not issue a statement, but they did with Tim Ballard. And, you know, what's the dog whistle of. Of, you know, morally unacceptable behavior? Carah, what. What does that mean in a Mormon context?

Carah Burrell [00:30:40] Breaking your covenants and taking off your garments?

John Dehlin [00:30:44] And more seriously, for those who are never Mormon, like, what does that likely mean?

Carah Burrell [00:30:50] It likely meant that he did something where. When I read it, the first thing that came to my mind is immediately, without knowing anything, it was likely that he was doing something on operations that he was justifying for the mission that went above and beyond what you would ever need to do to save a child, meaning engage in some kind of extramarital sexual relations.

John Dehlin [00:31:15] Yeah, he probably had an affair. He probably cheated on his wife. I mean, that's what. That's what that. That's what that meant to me. And. And yeah, he. It was so. I was so surprised. I. I guess maybe the next thing to show is just my clip because I was, like, doing a live stream. I believe it was about Tim Ballard. I don't even remember. But while I was doing the live stream, someone reached out to me and told me, john, who was it?

John Paul Gets Excommunicated

Carah Burrell [00:31:47] Tell us. I really want to know.

John Dehlin [00:31:49] We'll see. We'll see if I do or not. I probably won't, but let's go and play the clip. Claire, can you tell us what this clip is from? Because I don't even know.

Carah Burrell [00:31:56] Yeah, it's from an episode of. We're gonna play first. I think we have John, you receiving the tip that he was excommunicated. And I was there. I was watching live, and I was like, oh, this is going in my documentary. And then followed by A clip of Tim from about two weeks ago. He was on Troy Abel's show, Last Dispensation, doing a two and a half hour rant about finally coming out that he was excommunicated. He went on this other show called named Julie Green's podcast. Just this daily prophecy type show. We're going to show a clip of that in a minute too, where he was ranting about satanic child sex abuse within the church. So after Julie Green's podcast about four weeks ago, then he went on Troy Able show to kind of smooth things over and explain more what he meant. So we're going to be showing clips from that podcast where he's talking to a pro lds, you know, podcaster about John. So I texted John right away and said, hey, did you hear the news? You're a star. You're on Charlie Abel's podcast, let's Dispensation. You made it, kid.

John Dehlin [00:32:59] Yeah. And we're going to contrast what I actually said with what he claimed I said. Is that right?

Carah Burrell [00:33:04] Yes.

John Dehlin [00:33:04] Okay, really quickly. We love Megan Connor. Megan, thank you for the super chat. Megan has a wonderful YouTube channel. You all should check it out. She is a family member of Lori Valo, but Megan writes here to express love and thanks to John and Carah as an actual trafficking survivor who wants to see justice for victims and more truth telling. Thank you, Megan. Thanks for the super chat. We love you, Megan. Check out Megan's channel. All right, so now what we're gonna play is the breaking news that I shared. Was this the day he was excommunicated? Okay.

Tim Ballard Has Been Excommunicated by the Mormon Church

Carah Burrell [00:33:40] This was the exact time? Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:33:42] Okay, so like, while I'm live streaming, sort of reporting on his expectations.

Carah Burrell [00:33:47] John, your propensity to always be checking your phone during shows has finally paid off.

John Dehlin [00:33:53] I'm not doing that today, or at least not that much. All right, here's the clip from back then. Is this two years ago?

Carah Burrell [00:33:58] Yep, two ish years ago. Fall September 2023.

John Dehlin [00:34:02] All right, here's the clip. This is very, very serious late breaking news, if true. I cannot say that I've confirmed that this is true, but I can say that I trust my source. I just received word that Tim Ballard has been excommunicated by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or the Mormon Church. I cannot confirm if it's true. So at this point, it's a tip, it's an allegation, but it comes from a very, very trusted source. It came from a name that pretty much all of you would know. I'll just read the tip. I asked him what the source was for the evidence that Tim Ballard. He writes it's a good source, but I can't be explicit. I wish I could be. I think the church is set to announce it but it's a very close confident that the excommunication happened on Monday. But the letter was delivered last night around 9:45. So reporting is that Tim Ballard had a disciplinary council on Monday, September 25th and the letter was delivered last night, September 27th, around 9:45pm so that's a pretty specific intelligence. So I am not going to mention who gave me this information just for the sake of accuracy. Did I say that a high level church leader, some high level church leader or even any church leader gave me that intel?

Carah Burrell [00:35:49] No. To say otherwise would be an exaggeration.

John Dehlin [00:35:54] Exactly. Okay, let's go. Let's go back to the clip and hear what he, what he claims lately. And I think this is important because it shows to me it shows how he kind of plays fast and loose with the facts. So let's go ahead and play Baptism

Guest 2 [00:36:11] would just legitimize a further cover up of everything. Oh, Tim was guilty. Something else that's going to come out. Okay. John De Lin. I've never been interviewed by, by him but please send this to him because he, he, he said that the people that did this to me took my excommunication letter and sent it to him. Is that part of. I'm trying to figure out where in the repentance process where they're trying to save a poor soul mine in this situation and send it to during that whole process an ex Mormon. You give the communication letter to an anti Mormon podcaster. Yeah. Now I don't know that that's true. I don't know if John Deland lied about that or not. I don't follow him. If he does come out and says that proves to. I've always said this. How they did it tells you why they did it. How they did it tells you that they did not do it to bring a poor soul from sin like this. Why are you violating scripture? Why are you giving if they did giving my excommunication letter to the press. Why are you lying to press far and wife about something you know is a lie.

John Dehlin [00:37:12] So again I think the most important thing I wanted to bring up was did I claim that a church leader at all gave me that? You know anyone associated or affiliated with the church in any way?

Carah Burrell [00:37:26] No. Something to do with somebody whose name you'd recognize?

John Dehlin [00:37:29] Yeah. But that could Be anybody that could be a celebrity, that could be a fellow podcaster, that could be an entertainer.

Carah Burrell [00:37:37] All they know, I was sitting outside of that excommunication door typing away my text message to you.

John Dehlin [00:37:43] I'm just saying, you see how fast he jumped? And I'll just tell people it was not the bishop or the stake president. It was not anyone who held any calling with the church in relation to Tim Ballard, and it was not even an employee of the church or anyone on the inside. And it certainly wasn't a high level leader of the church. It was just a friend that I have whose name people would know who has, let's just say, friendships or family very close to Tim, which isn't hard. I mean, the guy lived here in Salt Lake Valley. Like lots of people are connected to Tim. But I just think it's. How quick did he jump to this conspiracy that top Mormon church leaders were trying to smear him by leaking the results of the excommunication to anti Mormon podcaster? Yeah. Am I wrong?

Carah Burrell [00:38:35] Yeah. Yeah. This is all part of his worldview and his way of smearing anything that's coming against him. When he mentions Vice News, he can't just say vice News. He calls it Vice News. The Soros owned, anti Jesus, anti church, pro pedophile Vice News, defunct Vice News. He has to say it in full context so that he gets it through to his Mormon audience. So it's like John De Lin, the ex Mormon podcaster, was given this information by the Deep State Church to, you know, screw me over. It's not. It's not free of that context in my.

John Dehlin [00:39:10] In my dream world that the. This goes to trial, Tim Ballard and the Mormon Church do go to battle in court. And the Mormon Church subpoenas me to come up on stand and testify that Tim Ballard was full of crap in this instance. Do you think that'll happen?

Carah Burrell [00:39:28] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:39:29] Would the church ever let this go past discovery or would they. Would they settle before this ever.

Trump on Sexual Harassment

Carah Burrell [00:39:33] They would settle. Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:39:36] You just killed my dream. You just dashed my dream. Care, bro.

Carah Burrell [00:39:38] We can do other lawsuits if you want to.

John Dehlin [00:39:40] I mean, if we say the wrong thing, if we say the wrong one, we'll be. We'll have our own.

Carah's 15 Minutes of Fame

Carah Burrell [00:39:46] All right. Again, the night is young.

John Dehlin [00:39:48] All right, so, okay, so what. What's next, Carah, in the. In the timeline?

Carah Burrell [00:39:53] All right, well, you got your 15 minutes of fame.

John Dehlin [00:39:56] It's been all downhill. It's been all downhill from there.

Carah Burrell [00:39:59] Tim Ballard's world. So we'll go to next, because what I'm Trying to explain today is something a little bit different. I've made a, you know, a couple videos this past week. I have another one that I'll probably bring out tomorrow about what's going on with Tim. And what we're going to be focusing on today, though, is his attack of this deep state church. And we'll go to this slide. So there's an announcement that happened just a few days ago. I think this was last Thursday, maybe. And Tim puts out on his Facebook page that he. With that, it says, with a heavy heart. With a heavy but determined heart. Catherine and I will be making a major announcement tomorrow.

Tim Ballard Announces He's Been Excommunicated from the LDS

John Dehlin [00:40:43] So that's on the screen. On the right side of the screen.

Carah Burrell [00:40:45] Right.

John Dehlin [00:40:46] And immediately when I see that, I'm thinking, oh, no, he and Katherine getting divorced. Like, it's almost like he clickbaited that idea.

Carah Burrell [00:40:56] I get so angry when people say that, because I'm like, do I need to podcast 24 hours a day, seven days a week to show you what kind of man Tim Ballard is? He would never, ever publicly say that his wife doesn't love him anymore. As a matter of fact, that's the first thing that he said when he made this video that we'll show in a second.

John Dehlin [00:41:10] But come on. The.

Carah Burrell [00:41:11] The text screams that it's with a heavy and determined heart that Catherine and I will be telling you how we are either suing the church or she's leaving the church with me now that I've been excommunicated. That's where my mind first went.

John Dehlin [00:41:25] She's now been baptized Catholic.

Carah Burrell [00:41:26] Yeah, that. It is an interesting. Like, how does that theology work out, which we'll be discussing, like, where you're not baptized, you're an ex member of the church, but she still works in the temple. How are you guys going to be together in the celestial kingdom, Tim? So when Tim Ballard posted that on social media, then the comment section started to erupt with debate over where he stood in the LDS Church. And essentially, people were starting to argue, was Tim Ballard excommunicated? Really excommunicated from the LDS Church? And then Tim releases this video and explains his announcement and explains his status in the church. So we can go ahead and play that video.

John Dehlin [00:42:08] All right, let's play it.

Carah Burrell [00:42:10] This is his announcement, everybody.

Guest 2 [00:42:11] I am here to give you the message that I announced yesterday. I'm so sorry for those of you who thought that I was going to announce a divorce or something. Not at all. Catherine and I are very, very much in love and very, very much united. We're in love. And in love under a covenant with Jesus that no man can lie about. I want to tell you something before I announce this. I'm going to read something to you. A press release that's made by myself, my wife, legal and production team of Hidden War. It's very, very important. I've made two covenants, many covenants, but two important ones, okay? One is with my Savior, to rescue his children at any cost, even if that cost is my own life. I've proven that. And I believe that another covenant I've made is to protect and defend his kingdom. So many people think that I have been hurting something they love. After you listen to what I say, you'll know that I'm not doing that. I am attacking something you hate that has infiltrated a piece of something you love. Okay? I am trying to.

John Dehlin [00:43:18] All right, so that's. What are your. I have reactions. What are your reactions, Carah?

Carah Burrell [00:43:23] Right, so he's just trying to set up this idea that he's not attacking something that you love. Mormons, calm down. He's attacking something you hate. And he's going to explain his theology and his reasonings. Yeah. What are your reactions?

John Dehlin [00:43:39] I mean, yeah, it. It's. I mean, we were. I did an episode today with John Turner on the Danites in Missouri after Joseph was kicked out of Kirtland for the Fanny Alger affair and also the Kirtland bank scandal. And these Danites were formed, it's this group, this paramilitary group that the Mormon Church with Joseph Smith started for two reasons. To defend the church against any violent acts, but also to intimidate anyone the church wanted to intimidate. I don't know if you know this, Carah, but one of the. The fallouts from the Kirtland bank scandal and the Fanny Alger affair was that Oliver Cowdery accused Joseph Smith of adultery. And a bunch of apostles got mad that they all lost their money investing in a bank that Joseph Smith said God told him to start. And so all these men did were basically just say, hey, we lost our money with the church. Hey, Joseph, why are you committing adultery with the woman? And you know, this. This is a problem. And these Danites literally threatened to kill and hang Oliver Cowdery and. And David Whitmer and John Whitmer. And. Honestly, Carah, within six months of the Kirtland bank scandal, all three of the three witnesses to the Book of Mormon were excommunicated. Did you know that?

Carah Burrell [00:45:12] Yeah, that would make sense.

John Dehlin [00:45:14] But. But it's worse. They were threatened with death. And so Starting from then on, you just don't criticize the church.

Carah Burrell [00:45:20] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:45:21] And you take covenants in the temple to never speak ill of who the Lord's anointed. Right. And, and you also covenant, you know, to never associate with apostates. So Tim Ballard's got to walk this walk of doing what every Mormon thinks is the worst possible thing, which is to publicly criticize the church because we've all covenanted not to. And he's claiming to be keeping his covenants. So he's got to thread that needle and say, whoa, I'm not criticizing the church. I'm not criticizing the leaders. I love the church and I love Christ and I love the leaders and I'm keeping my covenants. And the church is full of satanic pedophiles. And you know, he's also trying to say that he loves the leaders. But who signed off on his excommunication? Didn't he appeal his excommunication?

Tim Ballard: The Mormon Church's False Excommunication

Carah Burrell [00:46:12] Yes, that's what we've also get into. So in his mind, President Nelson and his counselors just never saw it. Like all the appeals that went up, they were just blind to it when it's obvious that something this high level definitely threw it through, you know, the top echelons of the church. But yeah, he's, he's threading the needle where he is saying that the excommunication is a false excommunication. He's a victim of a false excommunication, that he's a victim that he was denied due process by LDS leaders and he has to pin it on somebody. So I'll get into how he pins that on his stake president. And Doug Anderson, the old PR guy at the church is who the Deep State is corroborating with. So as long as he can pin that on some, you know, mid level management guy named Doug who can take down the church, the members don't have to pay attention and recognize, hey, maybe that means that the church wasn't built on the rock of foundation. If Doug from PR can take it down with the Deep State. So as long as he can distract people by having some fall guys, he's allowed to say that the prophet had no idea. They're still prophet seers and revelators, and I'm just a victim of a false excommunication.

John Dehlin [00:47:32] The one thing I wanted to say is so many excommunications are false. Literally. Oliver. Oliver Cowdery was excommunicated for falsely claiming that Joseph Smith had an affair with Fanny Alger. Guess what Joseph Smith had an affair with Fanny Alger. The Mormon Church even admits this. And she was 18 or 19 at the time. She was working in his home. Oliver Cowdery was falsely excommunicated. Did you know that John and David Whitmer. One of the allegations of John and David Whitmer were that they violated the word of Wisdom.

Carah Burrell [00:48:08] I didn't know.

John Dehlin [00:48:08] What do you know about the Word of wisdom in 1838? Carabarel from, from what? Do you remember that?

Carah Burrell [00:48:14] It was only a word of wisdom.

John Dehlin [00:48:15] It was not a commandment at the time. So why in the world would they be excommunicated for not obeying a suggestion? Wasn't even a commanding. By the way, Joseph Smith drank wine even the night before he was martyred. The pioneers took coffee and tea with them when they migrated west. Like there's no earth, there's no place on earth or no universe where the Church is going to excommunicate someone credibly for drinking coffee and tea. And yet that's why two, at least one, if not two of the Book of Mormon witnesses were excommunicated. So, and even in my case, I was excommunicated, you know, for false reasons. The Church claimed I was in apostasy, but I wasn't and so many people aren't. Natasha Helfer wasn't in apostasy. Sam Young wasn't in apostasy. So in some sense, Tim Ballard, if you had been watching Mormon stories and paying attention, you'd know that so many of the excommunications that the Mormon Church holds are false. So sorry to break it to you, Tim, but that's, that's the way Mormon excommunications often work.

Carah Burrell [00:49:26] Right?

John Dehlin [00:49:26] Am I wrong?

Carah Burrell [00:49:27] It's, it's a brand management strategy. Yeah, pretty much. Tim is acting like he did so much for the LDS Church, he sold books for them, and he's been a faithful member. He's constantly beating that drum of look at all the things I did for you church. But the Church's partnership with Tim Ballard and our. And from the very get go, it was about a mutually beneficial relationship. It was a brand strategy for both of them to, you know, get more converts on one hand and have more, you know, fundraising and have the Mormon Church's credibility. And Russell Batters is it was a mutually beneficial brand strategy. And what does a gigantic corporation worth $300 billion do when you're not advantageous to that brand strategy? They cut you off by the legs. And that's, it's like Tim I know that your relationship with the church that meant something to you internally too. Like in, in addition to, you know, not wanting to be on the outs with the church like you believed in its theology. It doesn't care if you believe in its theology anymore. You're not advantageous for the brand and it seems that you have done some things that are going to be too scandalous for them to move forward with you in good membership.

John Dehlin [00:50:40] But is this a sign that he's a genuine believer? Because he's basically claiming to feel heard that he loves the church. He believes in the church, he believes in the prophets. And yet somehow this church that he believes in has been taken over by a deep state, corrupt, you know, pedophiles. And somehow the prophet sees and revelators, the 15 prophets, seers and revelators who run the church, who are special witnesses of Christ, who talk to God and Jesus regularly. Somehow God and Jesus can't Let the top 15 prophets and revelators of the church know that, that the church has been infiltrated by satanic child abusers and that the church PR is part of that. Like, does this mean Tim Ballard is really a believer in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

Carah Burrell [00:51:31] I think, I think you can speak to this better than I can. But there are so many different branches of thought thought and I want to get into later in my slides that you know, he is a mentor of his is Tom Harrison and he has connections with, you know, the Jody Hildebrandts of the world and just people who have different offshoots and beliefs and ideas and it's my understanding if you want to get into allegedly territory. Ryan, my co host has personal information from Tim when they were friends where EM Russell Ballard gave him a special kind of blessing. We don't know if that's a second anointing type of blessing or a different one. But. But he believed in that blessing. That blessing was able to helped him not feel so guilty about having to watch child exploitation materials in his job and that the blessing said that anything that he does is sanctioned therefore by God. This is like before the beginning of our. And so Tom Harrison and EM Russell Ballard, people in positions of power above him, kind of giving him a handhold to, to kind of move into his own prophetic status in his mind. So not that I believe that he believes that these people speak for God. I do believe that he believes in the theology in which he is able to manufacture a God within himself, a prophet within himself, that he is of like equal understanding to them, but the theology is the basis and the, the status and the hierarchy that's. That's more negotiable.

Tim Ballard's Descent Into Satanism

John Dehlin [00:52:58] Yeah, yeah, it's a. It's a real tricky territory. He's trying to walk and part of me wants to believe him that he's just disillusioned and sad and hurt that the church he loves has been infiltrated by satanic child sex abusers. But it's also a big pill to swallow. By the way, for those who don't know, Tom Harrison is the ultimate author of the book Visions of Glory, which kind of this is. Which is kind of this apocalyptic Mormon prepper bible that is. Was one of the best selling books in Utah for a couple years running because Mormon ortho orthodox Mormon preppers viewed it as sort of like ushering in the second coming of Jesus before an apocalypse. And it's the same book that Chad Daybell and Lori Valo had poolside when the police showed up in Hawaii to arrest them. So the Visions of Glory book is the gift that keeps on giving. Am I wrong?

Carah Burrell [00:53:57] Yeah. And so when you have that kind of mentor within your mind, within Mormonism, that is, you know, part of the rocket fuel that has made Tim Ballard go far and wide outside of the normal what you'd expect kind of Latter Day Saint dude to do.

John Dehlin [00:54:15] Yeah.

Carah Burrell [00:54:15] Yeah.

John Dehlin [00:54:16] Carah, there's a couple comments I have to share. Sonia Johnston says, kara, I like your hair.

Carah Burrell [00:54:24] So many compliments on my hair. Go see Jody. She lives right across the street here in Holiday, the salon. That's where you want to go.

John Dehlin [00:54:30] Elizabeth T. Says, kara, we love your ramblings. And are you feeling objectified, Clara? Hank Lee says, kara's absolutely gorgeous. Are you feeling objectified, Carah?

Carah Burrell [00:54:41] I feel great. I have that post. Mormon life collapsing, faith crisis, rebuilding your life. Glow, glow up, glow up. After everything is cool, calm and collected. So didn't have that when I was working here, though.

Guest [00:54:57] John.

John Dehlin [00:54:58] It's my fault.

Carah Burrell [00:54:58] Yeah. I was breastfeeding when I was still working here. Like, can you imagine? I'm like, I got a five year old now. But thank you, everyone.

John Dehlin [00:55:05] A couple other super chats, please. Thank you for the super chats. Keep them coming. T.R. writes Karen Ryan. That's your partner in YouTubing. Timmy did what? Thank you for all the research and time that you've put into investigating Tim Ballard. So that's from tr. Thank you, TR Wyatt. Thank you for the support as well, audio listeners. I'm sorry if you're annoyed by us reading out the super chats, but it's literally part of how we can pay Carah. So please bear with us. Ethan writes Tom Harrison seems to turn up linked to so many of these people. Jody Hildebrandt, Lori Valow, Tim Ballard, also Ruby. Yeah, Ruby, Frankie, everyone. Anyway, theory, they don't excommunicate him because he could form his own sect. And I think that's almost what some people are wondering if Tim Ballard is on the precipice of doing is starting his own Mormon sect. Either way, thank you Ethan for the super chat. And then finally Omar also again is super chatting. His video is weird and cultish. So thanks to everyone for the super chats. Carah, did you want to respond?

Carah Burrell [00:56:21] I'm ready to move on to the next slide, but thank you.

Tim Ballard Threatens to Sue the LDS Church Over Defamation

John Dehlin [00:56:23] All right, let's do it. Let's go to the next slide.

Carah Burrell [00:56:25] I'm just going to introduce the next video clip.

John Dehlin [00:56:28] Okay.

Carah Burrell [00:56:28] Which is slide 8. So now he has some escalation in his threats. So this is again from the video of the announcement that he put out on his Facebook page the other day where he accuses the church authorities of refusing to retract the defamatory lies they he calls it. And he claims that traffickers, pedophiles and even ISIS are using the statements from the church to undermine his work. Which I think is very, very funny. That ISIS gives an F about what the LDS Church is saying about Tim Ballard that like anyway. And then he threatens to subpoena and expose alleged conspirators and declines to clarify whether he intends to sue the LDS Church, which I'll also get into. And then he talks about a 54 page letter. This is really interesting. Okay, this has been made a very busy week for me. I've been doing nothing but parsing through this letter that he sends to that he said he sent to the First Presidency where he demanded recognition of all of the lies and that he demanded to be reinstated within the church. And the tone of this 54 page letter is extremely defensive. It's very self righteous and he's basically threatening the church to let him back in. But he's not quite self aware enough to realize that that's what he's doing in his letter to the First. First Presidency. So I'm going to read a couple interesting snidbits. You're getting breaking news here because this brain has been on overdrive parsing through this letter and the contradictions. And I found some very, very interesting things. You guys are going to want to see that expose exactly what a malignant narcissist we're dealing with here.

John Dehlin [00:58:05] I mean, it's true that the church hurt him when they released their statement. Right. I mean, it was devastating because no one's gonna. How many believing Mormons believe me that I said Tim Ballard was excommunicated or that his jumps were likely fraudulent? Lots of ex Mormons, believe me. But believing Mormons just almost had their. Their testimonies in Tim Ballard strengthened by. By what you and I put out about him and Vice News worst of all. But when the Mormon Church comes out with the press release, I mean, it ended up everything caved in for him. So, I mean, if he can prove that they knowingly lied about him, he'll easily be able to. To prove damages in a defamation case. Right.

Carah Burrell [00:58:48] If they put out the statement knowing that what they were saying was false. Some. Yes. The only thing where I agree that they put out that was false within that statement Device News is that they said that Tim Ballard never worked with any projects with. With like the church and Tim Ballard never worked together. And both you on that program and Tim Ballard can both agree, like, you can go to the Wayback Machine of the. The Deseret News and look at all of the projects that the church worked with, but that is just them trying to scrub. Their connection with him because of what he did was so heinous.

John Dehlin [00:59:24] Yeah, yeah, but. But they damaged him, right? I mean, it severely damaged him.

Carah Burrell [00:59:30] Yes, and rightfully so.

John Dehlin [00:59:33] Yeah, yeah.

Carah Burrell [00:59:34] Again, it's just brand protection. It's just brand management at this point. It's nothing personal to him. Just.

John Dehlin [00:59:39] But, but again, how. I'm just commenting as I'm seeing this. How in the world is he going to claim he's not attacking the church? He's. He loves the church. When he's claiming that the church has been lying about him, when he's calling what they said about him defamatory lies. How in the world is he not attacking the church and its leaders?

Carah Burrell [01:00:01] Oh, we'll get to it. The theology. I love. I love. I love malignant narcissists. When they get a hold of scriptures. I just. I love how it works inside their brain and then I get to parse it out.

John Dehlin [01:00:09] All right, what's next?

Carah Burrell [01:00:10] So basically he's saying everyone is lying except me. Let me back in or bad things will happen.

John Dehlin [01:00:14] Yeah.

Carah Burrell [01:00:15] Okay, so we can play number eight.

John Dehlin [01:00:17] All right, let's play it.

Guest 2 [01:00:19] Time. Authorities inside the church have refused to retract the obvious defamation, which is now being used by groups like ISIS and traffickers and pedophiles in general. To obstruct Ballard's work. Some theater chains have even refused to show the docu film Hidden War, set to release on November 14, due to the refusal of people inside the church to retract its lie. Children remain in the crosshairs of these lies and these conspiracies. We ask all people and theater chains everywhere to read the court documents and a letter sent to church officials in March of this year pleading for relief so the truth might be known and children will no longer suffer under this.

John Dehlin [01:01:00] What are the chances that ISIS knows who Tim Ballard is and are talking about the Mormon Church's denunciations of Tim Ballard?

Carah Burrell [01:01:10] I can get inside Tim's head a lot, but that's one where I can't get inside. What the freak you're talking about, Tim? What do you mean that now you can't do work in Syria because ISIS heard the statement from the LDS church that you did morally unacceptable things? First of all, you're supposed to be undercover. And second of all, like, why would they care that you did morally unacceptable things in the eyes of, you know, some Rocky Mountain Bible fantasy and sex cult on the halfway across the world? I do they have a translator. It just doesn't make any sense. But he thinks that governments around the world are kicking him out because the church. Like, if the Mormon Church denounces you, they must have some good reason, is his point. You know, like, the Mormon Church acted so harshly with this denouncement based on lies that now I can't do the work that I need to do. And now the church has blood on their hands. All these people have blood on their hands is one of the points that he makes because of this innocuous lie.

John Dehlin [01:02:12] And do you. Are you buying it? Are you buying it?

Carah Burrell [01:02:14] What do you think, John?

Doug Anderson on 'The film'

John Dehlin [01:02:17] All right, what's this next clip?

Carah Burrell [01:02:20] Next clip is him further making his point about the church. You can play that one, too.

Guest 2 [01:02:26] Okay, call Cinemark, call the theaters, and call Doug Anderson, who's the one who perpetuated this lie and continues to do so by being silent, and ask them to simply retract. We don't need an apology, just retract for the kids.

Guest [01:02:40] Kids.

Guest 2 [01:02:40] This film is the tool that will rescue those kids if people don't see it. Kids don't get rescued. The film isn't being shown places because of the lie. You get it? So help us help the kids. Okay, now the third option is to do nothing, to be neutral. Okay? That's a lot of you are going to want to do that and I understand that. That's how I felt for almost a year. But just know that at this point, neutrality is not really, not really an option.

Tim Ballard Calls The Church the Deep State

John Dehlin [01:03:08] So what's he, what's he saying?

Carah Burrell [01:03:10] So he's upset. He has this new documentary film coming out called the Hidden War and, you know, jumping off of the success of the Sound of Freedom, which, you know, did have some good ticket sales and success, partially based on the Sound of Freedom being a movie with Jim Caviezel and it being, you know, at the height of more of the QAnon conspiracy and also that it's less of a documentary and, you know, an actual fictional kind of narrative form that he can tell whatever story he wants to. He thinks that this Hidden War film should be just as big as the Sound of Freedom. However, for all the reasons I mentioned, a, it's not going to be and it's not getting the distribution. And, and he's blaming that on this deep state conspiracy that people don't want the film to be shown. And you need to call Cinemark, call your local theaters. He's got this big movie coming out and it's not getting the distribution that it needs to for him to make his money back. And he's very clear and explicit that he's going on different podcasts when people say, okay, Tim Ballard, the anti, you know, sex trafficking hero, how can we help? How can we get invested? He always says, go see the movie. The number one thing you can do to help sex trafficked kids is go see my movie. So that's why he's calling on people to buy a ticket. Buy a ticket for all of your friends. Call Doug Anderson, tell them to retract this lie and demand that this movie gets seen. He's, he's desperately clinging at power and relevancy really quickly.

John Dehlin [01:04:49] I mean, the, the Mormon Church has enough power to tell movie theaters, don't show Tim Ballard's movie. Right? Like, but he's got, it seems like he's pushing a conspiracy theory that he has information that the church is keeping him out of movies. Is that right or what?

Carah Burrell [01:05:07] I wouldn't say that. He has information that the church is keeping him out of movie theaters, but for whatever reason, he just can't get the distribution that the Sound of Freedom had. And I think it's, it's simply because it's not a very good movie. And I've had people who are featured within the film. I got an email today giving me a full expose. I have like a copy. Like, if I wanted to, I could give A full breakdown one day on the lies that he tells in this film, similar to the others, where he can manipulatively edit, he can pretend people said things that they didn't to tell whatever story that they want. So it's just. It's not going to be another sound of freedom. It's not getting the distribution. And he's very upset and again, grasping at straws, grasping at relevancy, calling the. The. The church the deep state because he can no longer do the work that is supposedly, supposedly going to save kids. And it would be my argument that going to see a movie is not the best way to save sex traffickants.

John Dehlin [01:06:09] Here's a quick comment that I think is super interesting. Janeq Public writes, I noticed that one of the Sounder Freedom guys just got a long interview on the Soft White Underbelly YouTube channel, which is a huge channel, millions of followers talking about the oour stuff. Seems like a reputation laundering was in process. So that's pretty. What do you think about that, Carah?

Carah Burrell [01:06:35] I don't know anything about that.

John Dehlin [01:06:37] South White Underbelly. It's a great channel. All right, well, that's for those of you who know it's South Soft White Underbelly is. That's a pretty big deal. Okay, so what. What comes next, Carah?

Tim Gunn Claims The Mormon Church Is Infested With Satanic Ritual

Carah Burrell [01:06:46] Okay, so this is where we're going to get into his contradictory opinions. And this is the fun stuff about the satanic ritual abuse that he's claiming the church does and his theology. So Tim claims simultaneously. So two very contradictory things. So in October, Tim appeared on a MAGA Christian podcast hosted by this woman, Julie Green, and claims that the Mormon Church is infested with satanic ritual abusers. He mocks people who call themselves Christians that they could possibly be involved in horrific abuse while representing Jesus. He says that the church still remains the one true church of God and that his testimony is stronger than ever. Basically, his stance summed up would be the Mormon Church is invested with satanic ritual abusers because good things get infiltrated. That proves it's the Church of God, and I'm the most persecuted fan. So we can play the next clip. This is the video that kind of started shockwaves around the world. That came about about a month ago. And I'm catching you up in the timeline. So this came out about a month ago. And then Tim Ballard has been trying to explain what he meant by what he's saying here.

Tim Ballard on the Satanic Ritual Child Sex Abuse in the Mormon Church

John Dehlin [01:08:00] All right, let's roll the video.

Guest 2 [01:08:05] And that people that call themselves Christians and represent Jesus Christ could possibly involve Themselves in such pharisitical activity. They destroyed my life and they knew what they intended to. I lost everything. I lost my job. I lost. But I had a Simon and Shooter book deal. Lost it. Lost that. Lost sound of freedom too. No one, I mean, I was, I was on the outs with everybody. Because if the Mormon Church would denounce you, it must be true. Well, it's the ultimate backfire because Jesus didn't. Ironically, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints didn't count on Jesus. I, I, I wonder often if they prayed before or during this whole thing and said, jesus, please, please help us to outsmart you and lie better so that we can not let you uncover the worst thing happening on the planet. You should have on your show a guy named Jason Preston, also a member of the church. I'm sure they're going to excommunicate him soon. Well, they probably won't because I'm being loud now, but they excommunicated me, which basically is them saying, you don't go to heaven, basically telling my wife, while violating every scripture and policy, that I didn't get a hearing, I didn't get any kind of counsel. I had a witness outside. I knew enough to know that he could bail me out of this. No, he can't come in. It was the most cruel, unusual, ridiculous backfire. It's a backfire because they didn't count on my wife, who knows Jesus more than anyone I know, and they didn't count on Jesus himself. And so it's all I can, I can start talking because it's all coming out really soon. It's massive. It's not just the church. It goes, it goes far and wide, but the church, you'll see the allegations about satanic racial abuse that's been going on in Utah for probably decades. Jason Preston of We Are the People podcast. You need to talk to him. He's the expert on it. They knocked. I mean, they knew I was looking into it because I told them I was naively thinking they would want me to clean out satanic ritual use of children that's connected to people in the church. But no, no, no, no. We must be Pharisees. First and foremost, we whitewash the the.

John Dehlin [01:10:01] So on the one hand, Tim loves the church, believes in it, is obeying his covenants, loves the brother and has no criticisms of them. On the other hand, he let them know he was going to be rooting out child sex abusers, and they have been fighting him every step of the way to prevent him from rooting out satanic ritual child sex abuse in the Mormon Church. Did I get that right?

Carah Burrell [01:10:27] Yeah. And I always go, I'm like, how's that not an indictment on you, homeboy?

John Dehlin [01:10:31] What do you mean?

Carah Burrell [01:10:31] Aren't you the anti sex trafficking guy? So what did you do when you started to. You brought that to the attention of the church. What year was this? When did that happen? You found that out that people were being funneled into the state of Utah. You went and partnered with the church more. You went in to. You went to Haiti, you went to South America. You went everywhere. Except for where you're claiming the satanic ritual abuse happened and now blaming the church, that they didn't do anything about it. When, like, how's that not an indictment on you, dude? Like, that's your job.

John Dehlin [01:10:59] Also, if you really believed that the Mormon Church was harboring and promoting satanic ritual abuse child sex predators, why has he been silent for the past two years?

Carah Burrell [01:11:13] Yeah, that's, like, not a good strategy, dude. Like, I'll get into it more. It's very interesting. I'm gonna blow your minds in a second, guys. Okay.

Tim Ballard on Julie Green's Podcast

John Dehlin [01:11:21] All right.

Carah Burrell [01:11:22] And so he's. He's on this podcast, and if you guys just want a good time, take it from Carah Burrell. Go on Julie Green Show. She puts out a podcast every day of these insane, prophetic revelations. And just he says, like, julie, I love your show. You're the only show I watch, which is, you know what a narcissist says when he's trying to make. No, she's this MAGA Christian channel that has just these insane daily revelations, and she has her own ministry. And it's. It is cuckoo for Cocoa Puff stuff.

John Dehlin [01:11:55] Does she have any screeners at all? Like, how did he get on this channel?

Carah Burrell [01:12:00] I don't know. It's. It kind of is like, okay, you're up there with, like, going on Glenn Beck show, and you've kind of gone down the totem pole. And now you're with Troy Abels, who I will say nothing rude about, and Julie Green Show.

John Dehlin [01:12:12] Do you have a sense of how many subscribers Julie Green has?

Carah Burrell [01:12:15] She has a couple channels. Some of them have 5,000, some of them have 30,000. Okay, I can't quite tell.

John Dehlin [01:12:20] So we're not talking hundreds of thousands.

Carah Burrell [01:12:21] No, but he's going on this. This. It's a very MAGA Christian podcast. And what I mean by that is she is having people like Eric Trump on. And I will show this next clip. You'll see exactly what I mean. But this Is Tim, when he first came out, really quick.

John Dehlin [01:12:40] Let me, let me read a couple super chats. Jazz fan writes, feels strange for me to side with the Mormon Church. So Tim has, so Tim has achieved a first for me in a long time. Tim seems impaired in this clip. Thanks, jazz fan. 123214 I mean, they're basically saying Tim's jumped the shark in his allegations of the church. And can I just say, by the way, and maybe we'll talk about this. Like, I remember pre Covid, these Glenn Pace, you know, sexual child abuse allegations. They've been around for decades. But I met smart people in the past five, 10 years who came up to me and said, literally, John, did you know that in the basement of Temple Square there are dungeons where women are being held in dungeons, and they're, you know, apostles of the church are having sex with these women in sex dungeons. And then they're forced to have their babies, and then their babies are killed on altars and their organs are harvested. You know, and I'm telling you, people with master's degrees, people who actually are therapists for other people who I've met, have told me these types of things over the years. So these allegations aren't totally new. They've been around for decades and decades and decades.

Carah Burrell [01:14:07] And my opinion on that is I can't get into all of that as well as the Tim Ballard. I kind of have to pick the dark, you know, rabbit holes that I go down. But from what I have heard, I have friends who told me, somebody that you would also know, John, that I won't name drop here, but have told me what happened at my high school and things that I absolutely would believe that told me, kara, don't read it because once you read this, like, it will change you forever. So is there validity to these, these things? It seems so. There, there, there could be a very possibility that to some degree there's something going on. However, I don't want to detract from what Tim Ballard is using this for as a, as a bargaining chip, as. Yeah, all he's doing is he's trying to divert people's attention to something scary and horrible, which is what he always does when there's a tragedy, when there's something frightening, whether it's, you know, people are being bombed in Syria, he needs to go in there, or in the war in Ukraine, he's the one going in and helping orphans there. He's using a site of tragedy to scare people and incite, you know, a fear and reaction that he's there to help when they're really just a pawn in his game. He doesn't care or else he would have done something earlier.

John Dehlin [01:15:27] Yeah. Well, the point I just want to make is kind of related. Back to this comment from Jazz fan. Like, do. Do. Does Mormon stories. Do I, does the world. Does the Associated Press do the Boy Scouts of America? Is it common knowledge that tens of thousands of boys and girls have been sexually abused in Mormon churches over the past 150 years? Absolutely. Is, are child sexual abuse cover ups way too rampant in the Mormon Church?

Carah Burrell [01:15:59] Right.

John Dehlin [01:15:59] Absolutely. Is it arguable that without data that possibly the Mormon Church has done more child sexual abuse cover ups per capita than the Catholic Church? Absolutely. No one on Mormon stories is going to argue that there isn't a massive child sexual abuse cover up problem in Mormonism. That can be true. And it can be ridiculous to claim that the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles have sex dungeons where they're impregnating women, sacrificing their babies, and, and that child, you know, satanic child sex abusers are being promoted and encouraged throughout the church and that the quorum of the 15 are leaders of, of child. Of satanic child sex abusers that sacrifice babies. We can accept the former without wholesale accepting the latter. That's my point. Yeah, but it seems like, and I've done a few episodes on Mormon stories about these conspiracy theories around satanic ritual abuse within the Mormon Church. Y' all can check those out if you want. And I'm sure you're gonna be covering that as well in just a bit.

Carah Burrell [01:17:08] Yeah, And I would just add to what you said. It's the difference between is it institutionalized? Like, is it sex dungeons within the, the coffers of the Temple or something, Is it institutionalized? I would say I'm. I'm leaning towards no. But are there people who do things in the name of Satan? It sounds like there's, you know, people all around the world who claim to be Mormon and have their different ideas and do different horrible sacrificial things. That's, that's my understanding of what's been reported to me. But the institutional thing is nonetheless, like you said, that there's massive cover ups. So the institutional problem is the massive cover ups. Tim wouldn't necessarily care too much about that. He's using the scary tactic of the other one.

John Dehlin [01:17:51] Well, I'm just gonna say I don't think there's any world where members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles or First Presidency in the name of Satan are abusing and. And murdering children.

Carah Burrell [01:18:03] Right, yeah, that.

John Dehlin [01:18:04] Right. But those are the allegations tied to the Mormon child sexual abuse scandal that, like.

Carah Burrell [01:18:09] And that's the idea that he's invoking, too.

John Dehlin [01:18:11] And so, yeah, it's all right. One more. One more quick super chat. Ryan Fisher, your homie Ryan writes, I just got info from a trusted source. So this is an allegation.

Ryan Fisher on Tim McGraw's PR stunt

Carah Burrell [01:18:23] You didn't have to pay for this, Ryan. I would have read it.

John Dehlin [01:18:26] Do you want to read it, Carah?

Carah Burrell [01:18:27] I can't see it.

John Dehlin [01:18:28] That Tim is planning a PR stunt announcing he's found Guardi based on some bogus facial recognition software. FYI, Garthy was 2 when kidnapped. He would be 17 now. So a little breaking news from Ryan. Hey, Ryan, thanks for your work.

Carah Burrell [01:18:45] Thanks, Ryan.

John Dehlin [01:18:46] Ryan and his daughter have also been on Mormon Stories. It's an excellent episode. Check it out. Okay, Carah, back to you.

Tim Ballard: Persecution Will Come Because He's Anointed by

Carah Burrell [01:18:52] Right, so let's go into.

John Dehlin [01:18:54] There's a second clip.

Carah Burrell [01:18:56] Oh, sorry, I haven't got to that clip yet. What we were going to talk about, just briefly, is Tim trying to talk to two different audiences now simultaneously trying to appeal to Mormon audiences while telling them that their church is full of satanic ritual abusers on a very, like, MAGA Christian podcast. And what he says here in this clip, I just think is interesting because when I saw this, I'm like, I see what he's doing. He's trying to appeal to a certain right, you know, far right leading, you know, QAnon adjacent type of MAGA Christian audience that if this ship fails and he's, as we know, not able to get back in the church, but he's also. He loses the majority of his Mormon audience. He can build one up under, you know, Julie Green's audience and. And these. So this, I think. Comments. I want your comments on this clip. I'm playing this for the viewers because it's very interesting.

John Dehlin [01:19:46] All right, so we'll play it and then we'll listen, we'll check for comments.

Guest 2 [01:19:50] Thank God for President Trump, because 999 out of a thousand people, if they get hit, like, he got hit or I got hit, you're just going to concede and say, what do I need to do to make this suffering stop? Don't do that, guys. You're being hit. Stand up. Because the minute you take one step, okay? It's like you've seen the movie Moana. Notice every time the miracles come, she starts swimming. And then it comes. Take a step. Take a step towards fighting back. And watch the majestic Hand of God come out. Okay. We can't have that number. 999 out of a thousand. Okay. It needs to be a much higher ratio of people willing to stand up. I always said to myself, I pray to God and say, help me harness my inner Trump. Help me harness my inner Trump. And he's a great example for me. Like, I literally say that in my prayers all the time. And. And Jesus helped me to do that, truly. Yeah. And there's nothing. I'll die once. You'll die on the Hill for Jesus. And he knows that. It's over. It's over. He carries you the rest of the way.

Guest [01:20:42] I just had Eric Trump on, and

Guest 2 [01:20:44] last one of the things I said was, you know, I said no other

Guest [01:20:46] person, because obviously, you know, you're dad was anointed by God.

Guest 2 [01:20:50] He is anointed by God because nobody

Guest [01:20:52] else could have endured that type of,

John Dehlin [01:20:55] you know, forgive me, Carah. And I think you're going to expect this. Like, I've been really trying to have people all across the political spectrum feel comfortable on Mormon stories. I want Republicans and Trump voters to feel comfortable on Mormon stories. So I've been really trying hard not to alienate viewers and listeners by getting super political. So, anyway, I'm cool that you played that clip because I think it's interesting, I think it's newsworthy, but I'm just going to say at the top, I

Carah Burrell [01:21:25] don't want the commenters.

John Dehlin [01:21:27] Voter bashing, you know, but what were you gonna say?

Carah Burrell [01:21:30] Oh, the reason why I wanted to play that clip is the idea that persecution will come because you are the anointed one.

John Dehlin [01:21:37] Yeah. And so he's basically pulling a Jesus move, right?

Carah Burrell [01:21:40] He's pulling a Jesus move. He's pulling a Trump move. That there's never actually any merit to allegations, but once you are anointed, you should expect these things should come out. And so trying to align himself with, you know, the Trump voter base, who are very devoutly Christian, if he needs to jump the Mormonship into the other one.

John Dehlin [01:22:01] So, I mean, it's, it's totally valid. Putting politics, politics aside, Trump allied himself with Tim Ballard, and they've appeared on a podcast together. I believe he either went to the White House or. Mar a Lago. Mar a Lago to do that podcast with Trump.

Carah Burrell [01:22:18] Yeah, he's been with them a couple times, and he was appointed, like, a special counsel for human trafficking.

John Dehlin [01:22:24] Wasn't he at a board, Like a White House, Like a. Yeah, like a cabinet meeting. Isn't he shown?

Carah Burrell [01:22:29] Yeah, that's where he was appointed special counsel over human trafficking.

John Dehlin [01:22:32] Yeah. So like not getting partisan. That's just a fact that he's allied himself with Trump and Trump is allied himself. I mean, with all the pardoning that Trump has been doing. Trump pardoned, for example, the founder of Nikola the, the hydrogen truck company that was declared a fraud by the sec. Trump pardoned that guy, Trevor Milton, and he just parted Rudy Giuliani, I believe, pardoned Rudy Giuliani today. So if, if, if Ballard gets in any trouble at all, he isn't it almost a guarantee that Trump will pardon Tim Ballard?

Carah Burrell [01:23:11] We'll see. I mean, just like to call it out.

John Dehlin [01:23:15] I think that's it. I'm calling it here. If Ballard gets in any legal, legal trouble, Donald Trump will pardon him. I'm calling it here. On Mormon Stories podcast. What do you think?

Carah Burrell [01:23:25] I'm all I'm here to say, nonpartisan. Lee, is that a man who prays to be more like Donald Trump. We should keep his eyes on, just keep our eyes on that guy.

John Dehlin [01:23:36] In your opinion?

Carah Burrell [01:23:37] In my opinion.

John Dehlin [01:23:37] And please don't interpret this as me being for Donald Trump either. I just want everyone to feel welcome on the podcast because I don't know that I can influence America's political dynamic. But I think we have a chance to influence and are influencing the Mormon discourse. And so that's, that's why I try to do that. Anyway, one more super chat. SLS writes. Appreciate you both. I find it very sad and truly despicable that Tim Ballard is leveraging child abuse and human torture for his own notoriety. Quote, help the kids close quote, code for line my pocketbook and pad my ego. Yeah, she's basically. Thank you for that comment, sls. She's basically claiming that he's a grifter and that he's using children and child abuse as a part of his grift.

Tim Ballard: A Grifter Uses Child Abuse

Carah Burrell [01:24:31] Yep. And I discovered something in his 54 page letter to the first presidency that I can't wait to show you that really explains that.

Tim Ballard Claims the Glenn Pace Memo Proves The Deep Church

John Dehlin [01:24:39] All right, we'll get through this part

Carah Burrell [01:24:42] quickly because I think we've got an understanding that Tim is on this satanic abuse kick. So on his Facebook page and Instagram, he's put up this thing called the Glenn Pace Memo to prove that the Deep Church exists. And it's a 1990 internal church memo written by Bishop Glenn L. Pace that describes interviews with alleged ritual abuse victims inside of Utah. And church historians have acknowledged that it's part of the 1980s, 1990s satanic panic era where there is A period of moral hysteria with no verified ritual abuse cases. And Tim purports it as evidence that the church once admitted to Satanic infiltration. So he puts that up. Right. And then in his new post, he reframes this memo as the smoking gun that the Church buried. So if you want to go to slide 14 real quick, let me just

John Dehlin [01:25:35] say, I, I, I. Just to reiterate what you just wrote, one of my favorite books of all time is called Remembering Satan, and it was written by.

Carah Burrell [01:25:42] It would be John Den. The Antichrist. Clip that out, guys.

John Dehlin [01:25:48] Well, until you know what the book's about. So the book was written by the, the author of Going Clear, which was the original expose on Scientology. I think his name is Lord Trite. But anyway, Remembering Satan was the book before that. And he basically writes about the sexual ritual abuse moral panic that emerged in the 80s and 90s in the United States and in Utah. And there have been other podcasts about it. There's several that I could recommend. Teal swan, the YouTuber was heavily influenced herself by the satanic panic that came out in Utah. But, but, but just to reiterate what you wrote there, as far as I know, there was never any evidence found that substantiated claims of satanic ritual abuse in Utah. So you can allege that it's a cover up, but no one's been able to find any credible evidence of any satanic ritual abuse of children anywhere. And again in Utah. And that's not to say there wasn't child abuse and child abuse cover ups, just not tied to the satanic ritual abuse panic of the 80s and 90s.

Carah Burrell [01:27:05] Yeah, yeah, you've been around longer, you would know more about that. This is okay news to me for the most part. So if you go to slide 14

John Dehlin [01:27:15] real quick, go ahead.

Carah Burrell [01:27:19] Basically, Tim puts this up. You guys can read it if you want to. About.

John Dehlin [01:27:23] Do you want me to read it or not?

Carah Burrell [01:27:25] I was just going to summarize it. The next slide on number 15. So basically, Tim says that if he were a senator, he would have taken the Pace memo under the power of the US Government and exposed it. So he insists that the church's motives, the deep state motive, was to stop his Senate run, silence his work, and protect pedophiles and satanic elites. But the strategic goal of this rhetoric would be he's trying to invoke the Glen Pace memo. Tim gives his followers something tangible to latch onto, a historical artifact that feels like validation. Rebranding of the 1990s Satan Satanic Panic through the 2025 QAnon lens so that this keeps his audience, audience emotionally invested even as his credibility collapses more broadly and in court.

John Dehlin [01:28:16] And again, how serious is that of an allegation that the church wanted child sexual, like satanic ritual abuse of children to continue, that Tim wanted to ferret it out and so they, they lied and defamed him, took him down and torpedoed his Senate campaign because top Mormon church leaders or I mean, how powerful is this PR guy, what's his name again?

Carah Burrell [01:28:42] Doug Anderson.

John Dehlin [01:28:43] So Doug Anderson can bamboozle 15 prophet seers of revelators and, and somehow torpedo Tim Ballard's career and defame him while 15 prophecies and revelators, special witnesses of Christ, what, snooze like, sleep like? How does that work? Carah? Tell me how that works. Doug Anderson is one powerful dude. He's more powerful than God and Jesus, basically. Doug Anderson, you're. You're powerful. Go ahead.

Carah Burrell [01:29:15] Yeah, that again, mid level manager named Doug can take down the one true church. Maybe not so much built on the rock revelation like we were told it was. Yeah, maybe a podcast by John de Lynn too can take it down. So if you're really all that powerful, maybe it's not what it says that it is. So yeah, Tim is not. He didn't actually do anything all these years about this satanic panic stuff. He's just bringing it up now. Says that he went because his movie's

John Dehlin [01:29:44] not selling in enough theaters.

Carah Burrell [01:29:46] Yeah, pretty much says that he personally went to a member of the Quorum of the twelve Apostles and claims the apostle told him, please don't go down that rabbit hole. And then Tim Ballard's public response is, I answer to Jesus alone when you tell me not to help a child who's being raped. I'm not going to take that. Is what he said in his latest podcast. And it's like, sounds like you did kind of take that. Sounds like you did just kind of sit on that information for a long time. So none of you know, his public actions have reflected whistleblowing or confrontation or screaming anything from the rooftops. Instead, he's continued touring with the promoting like the Sound of freedom Movie in 2023, maintained his church partnerships when he could marketed that he's saving the children. And as I could get into, he has a, he has a whiteboard that happened in 2019 where he talked to his investors and he drew out this whiteboard of what his master grandmaster plan was of taking the sizzle of the rescue. So when you asked earlier, know what was Tim's goal when he's going into these brothels and these orphanages and stuff, he says it himself on his whiteboard. Take the sizzle of the rescue and lead them to the covenant. Is the exact words that he says. And that his partner in this he writes on the whiteboard is M. Russell Ballard is a silent partner in his Slave Stealers llc. So what did he do with this information? This whole time he still has been believing in the church and hoping that the sizzle of his rescue leads people to convert in the church further. So why would you convert. Convert more people into a church you believed was infiltrated by satanic ritual abuse?

Guest 2 [01:31:16] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:31:17] Like the whole premise of Mormonism is that it's led by prophet seers and revelators who are special witnesses of Christ. Exactly. Carah, how can Tim keep believing in the church if he believes that some mid level staffer guy named Doug can take over the church? Like, where's God? Where's Jesus? If God and Jesus are super powerful, wouldn't they off Doug?

Carah Burrell [01:31:40] Yeah. Is that what they're supposed to do? Basically like God will never let anyone tell a lie and stand in this position of authority.

John Dehlin [01:31:47] Like the church teaches its members that God will never let the prophet lead the church astray. But God will let Doug lead the church astray?

Guest 2 [01:31:54] Apparently.

Carah Burrell [01:31:55] Yep. Okay, so just to spell it out as plain as day, if you want to put number 17 on the screen, the implications of his own story. If Tim's version is true, he knew of alleged ritual abuse for years. He had access to top LDS leadership. He did nothing beyond one conversation. And if false, he's fabricating a story about a senior church leader and all of this for sympathy and leverage and basically revenge too.

John Dehlin [01:32:24] Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's wild.

Tim Ballard Uses Abuse Allegations to Pressure the LDS Church

Carah Burrell [01:32:26] It's. It undermines his hero narrative. If it's true, he ignored the rape of children to protect his influence. If false, he's exploiting the issue to manipulate people in the church. But both scenarios, Tim uses abuse allegations as bargaining chips to pressure the LDS church into reinstating him. And it's the tactic he uses more than once in his 54 page letter to the First Presidency begging for reinstatement into the church. So this is.

John Dehlin [01:32:53] Where is this going to get it? Back at the church. Carah, what do you think they're going to go? Oh, sorry Tim. Sorry. Come on back in. No harm, no foul.

Carah Burrell [01:33:01] This is where the cara barrell brain that makes me good friends with Tim Ballard's alleged victims. I say alleged because we're on camera right now, but if we weren't, maybe I wouldn't say that. But this is what has from the very beginning, this carabarell brain. Before I knew any of the documents, before I was friends with any of the Ledge victims. My brain works on hyperspeed and Tim, you're fast, but I'm faster. So this is really interesting. Glad that I'm on your podcast today to share this. I hope your audience is interested in this tidbit that I found in his his letter to the LDS Church's leadership as I am. So in this, in this letter he sends this letter to. It's addressed to the leadership of the church, the prophet and his two counselors that he sent it allegedly in in around March. And he references a lawsuit filed by Pedro Pedro Flores, known to Tim Ballard followers as Simba, who is the real life child depicted in the Sound of Freedom. So according to Tim's own account, Flores alleges he's telling this in the letter to the church. Flores alleges that he was raped by an LDS missionary who baptized him at age 9 in Colombia. And Colombian authorities allegedly requested church records connected to the case. Okay. The church has refused to release the missionary's name. Therefore the church itself may now be under investigation in Columbia for obstruction and cover up. So if you go to slide 19, Tim says this is Tim's blackmail to the church. Amongst his 54 page letter to them. He says to the church, we understand Columbian authorities have requested records from the church to determine who baptized Mr. Flores and that the church has claimed the baptismal records exist but does not disclose the name of the baptizing elder. Colombian authorities are now investigating the church for possible cover up of a dangerous pedophile. We understand this may result in legal action against the church by Colombian authorities to discover that that information next slide. He says for the sake of the children all around the world, they have been left with few options other than to go public or legal. So Tim includes this alleged abuse in his letter to the First Presidency. Not as moral outrage or compassion for the victim. He is using it as leverage as a veiled warning to LDS leadership. His implicit message is foreign. Prosecutors are circling. The church could get dragged into a child rape scandal unless we all start rowing the same direction.

John Dehlin [01:35:29] I mean that's pretty hardcore. Like he's messing with a. Some say a trillion dollar organization. Lot of money and power. He has a lot of money and power. How many Instagram followers alone does he have? Do you know?

Carah Burrell [01:35:44] I could look up on his Facebook. His Facebook has quite a Lot.

John Dehlin [01:35:47] We're talking millions. Millions, right?

Carah Burrell [01:35:49] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:35:50] Like this. I'm trying to decide if this is going to be a nothing burger for the church or if this is punching the church in the gut or something in the middle. I, I can't. But these are hefty allegations from one of the most influential Mormons of the past 10 years. Am I wrong?

Carah Burrell [01:36:07] Yeah. And so if you go to slide 21, this is again what's so interesting. He doesn't realize how threatening he sounds. Almost. So now facing exile, he finally is speaking up, but only when it benefits him. So if you show slide 21, you can see this letter is addressed to M. Russell Nelson before he died. You know, president of the church, his counselors.

John Dehlin [01:36:31] Right? Oh, Nelson, Nelson.

Carah Burrell [01:36:33] Okay. You know, down jokes President Henry B. Eyring from Tim and Catherine Ballard. And Tim's theology of victimhood and power now is fully exposed. He isn't protecting children from institutions, he's using children to threaten institutions that no longer protect him. So I highlighted right there in blue towards the end of the letter. Tim wants nothing more than to be reinstated to full membership rights within the church he loves. So all of these different threats and these bargaining chips where he's, he mentions the satanic abuse in this letter, he mentions this little boy in Columbia where there's an investigation that the church is trying to cover up, that he's basically saying, I can help you cover it up or I can help the Colombian authorities. You choose, please reinstate me in the church and we'll see what shakes out. Like this is him trying to play mafia boss with a 300 billion dollar organization and you know, a church, which theology I would hope would be for protecting children regardless and him as well. But he wants his membership back and the, the favors that, that provides so badly that he is literally using children to threaten institutions that no longer protect him. And that's who Tim Ballard is. It's very sickening.

Tim Ballard Threatens to Destroy the Church

John Dehlin [01:37:47] And you think, I mean, really quickly, I don't want to get sidetracked, but do you think this is going to work? Is this going to hurt the church or again, is this a nothing burger?

Carah Burrell [01:37:55] I think that it's escalating. Like I said, my prediction is that he is losing ground with his Mormon audience and going to jump ship to a more maga Christian audience, maybe a broader one that has like a bigger audience, a bigger scale to, you know. Yeah, yeah, jump, jump ship from, from this church. And possibly if he, if he does that and he goes and tries to go to a bigger audience, and keeps banging this drum that they are part of the satanic abuse. The church, I think, will have to respond. I don't think that he's going to, you know, make big statements like this and then go back into the shadows. I think he's going to escalate it further and bigger audiences that will hear him out. That's my answer. So Julie Green with this crazy prophecy podcast is one. I think that there are possibly bigger audiences that he is pining after. And we will see what comes in the future. And the church will probably have to have a response if more eyeballs are on him.

Tim Ballard Criticizes the Church

John Dehlin [01:39:00] Well, for fun on YouTube, I started a little poll to ask people if they think this Tim Ballard attack is going to hurt the LDS Church. So if y' all want to participate in the poll. Poll, I'm really interested to see.

Carah Burrell [01:39:13] What do you think is going to happen?

John Dehlin [01:39:14] I mean, the church, I. I'll just going back to this, this Joseph Smith biography I'm reading with John Turner Carabarell. Like Joseph Smith promised the saints in Missouri that Jesus would come to Independence. Within three years, they're kicked out of Independence. Joseph gets a revelation from God that with Zion's camp, he marches a bunch of saints from Kirtland down to Missouri to rescue the saints. He fails miserably and they're kicked out. He tells people that God told him to start a bank. They invest tons of money. The bank fails. He even said he heard an audible voice that God told him to start the bank. The bank fails, tons of people lose their life savings. Ton of the apostles apostatize. Then they all go to Far west. And Joseph Smith receives revelation that he's going to liberate the saints from the mobs in Far West. And of course, we all know how that ended. Like, believers have a phenomenal resilience against. Yeah, religious believers are incredibly resilient. So, yeah, I think this strengthens the church, honestly,

Carah Burrell [01:40:28] that the more people push against it, the more resilient they become.

John Dehlin [01:40:31] So, I mean, yeah, they're like, see, even, even the very elect will be deceived is what the. Where do we give more money?

Carah Burrell [01:40:37] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:40:37] Oh, the church is attacked. Tim Ballard's attacking the church. Where do I give more money?

Guest 2 [01:40:42] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:40:43] What do you think? Am I crazy?

Carah Burrell [01:40:44] Yeah, I think that's true. But when you said in the beginning, you're like, I thought we'd never talk about Tim Ballard again. I think that he's going to be getting more and more loud, bigger, bigger audiences, and it's going to become inevitable. That we make this podcast or other ones in the future, because his voice and megaphone to wider audiences is probably about to take place.

John Dehlin [01:41:06] Because you're saying he's not going away.

Carah Burrell [01:41:07] He's. He's not going away. And he's got his theology down, packed. So that leads into how he makes sense of all of this. This is one of my very favorite parts. So. So if you want to show the slide, I'm on 22 right now.

John Dehlin [01:41:23] All right, here we go.

Carah Burrell [01:41:23] So basically, as I explained in the previous slide, Tim, he really wanted to get back in the church. He. He has had a number of appeals directly to the church. He said that he's like, I don't know why he's admitting this now, but he's. He is basically the guy who's like, actually, you can't dump me. I'm dumping you. And also, I smuggled a bunch of paperwork into President Nelson's secretary. I don't think he ever saw it because I wouldn't be in this position right now. So he's acting like a scorned guy after a breakup. And so after TIM's excommunication in 2023, TIM appealed for reinstatement after the one year waiting period, which was denied by the first presidency. And now he insists that he will never get re baptized, saying that rebaptism would legitimize corruption and whitewash a corrupt institution. He's like, I don't want to be in your stupid club. I still believe in it. And I would like to be in it, I mean, obviously, because I could have like a temple recommend and be back with the church, but I don't wanna lit my legitimize your corruption. Um, then he says that if he stands in the parking lot while his daughter gets sealed, he'll accept the suffering as persecution in the name of Jesus. That earns extra blessings. So his narrative is he's always still the good guy in the story. He can still believe in the Mormon theology, be excommunicated from it, and he's still the best good guy and Jesus's special little homeboy. So we can play clip 2022 where he explains that he was kicked out, but he's never gonna appeal to be in their stupid club again.

John Dehlin [01:42:52] All right, number 23, let's play the clip.

Guest 2 [01:42:56] Don't stop appealing your excommunication. Don't stop. We have new leadership now. We have a new profit if they don't. Look, I'll be honest with you. I don't want to insult anybody. But take this for the truth. That is they, these people reduce my membership in the church to nothing more than a country club card whose golf course I have no interest playing on because the golf pro is the state president. And those who instructed him to do this, that's what they did. That's why I said that's not going through the veil. They reduced it to a golf. It's hard for people to understand. You got to think of it with the story. That's why I'm telling you the story. I will never get re baptized. I won't mock God. I won't mock God. Now people say, of course now for a year I thought that I had to. I would feel six in my stomach before my Lord and Savior if I got re baptized so that I could legitimize. The only reason would be to legitimize the corruption and put another, you know, court of whitewash on the corrupt too. I'm not going to participate in that. I will not participate in lukewarmism. I cannot before my God.

Guest [01:43:54] I cannot.

Guest 2 [01:43:54] I'm not going to legitimize something that hurt countless children, that I've seen their faces. I'm not going to do that. I won't like every bad man. And if they want to let me back into the temple, that's the only thing they've been able to take away from me, then that would be wonderful. But I don't need. If they want to do a little clickety click in their system for their own souls, then they can do that and they don't even need to tell me about it. Does that make sense? It has nothing to do with me. This has to do with them. And the Lord has nothing to do with me. So I don't have any more appealing to do. I mean, if I have to stand in the parking lot when my daughter gets married, sealed, that would be very sad. But I've also learned that blessed are those who are persecuted in the name of Jesus. So I'll just get more compensatory blessings. That's what I believe. And if that's what happens, that's what happens. I still want my dog.

Tim Ballard on His Excommunication

John Dehlin [01:44:38] Is that it? I mean, that is so. What's that?

Guest [01:44:41] Yeah, go ahead.

John Dehlin [01:44:41] That is so freaking wild. Like on the one hand, he wants to tell us all Mormons, potential donors, I still believe in the restoration. I still believe in the church. I love the church. And he's saying that even if they offered rebaptism, he'd decline it. Like, I guess I don't See that on the one hand, on the other hand, he's pulling. The corporate church is corrupt, but the Church of Christ I'm still a member of and they're clickety clicks as he calls it. Don't change the validity of the ordinances that, you know, that I've received. And in Jesus's eyes, I'm still super worthy. Like, what do you make of that, Carah?

Carah Burrell [01:45:24] Yeah, you said it. It just is his way of making sense to himself and to a Mormon audience of like, yeah, you know, I guess the church can be corrupted. Like there's false excommunications. You know, you can still be a member and I guess you don't have the temple recommend, you don't have that piece of paper. But you know, God is looking at your heart. But what it makes me think of is his wife Catherine, you know, works in the temple, has a temple recommend and his kids are temple worthy as well, the ones who are adults. And wouldn't they have to answer the question, do you associate or affiliate with anyone, you know, that temple recommend question, Anyone whose, you know, ideas are against the ideas of the church? I don't know the exact wording, but you know, I'm talking about John, his wife. I don't know how she answers that question when she's still married to a guy who is actively screaming that the church is full of satanic ritual abuse. Be like, that's if there was ever an answer to that question of like, yeah, you might not be able to get a temple recommend if you are still associated with your husband, Tim Ballard, if he's calling the church these things,

John Dehlin [01:46:31] you know, I mean, she's appearing on the, the videos with him.

Carah Burrell [01:46:36] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:46:36] Where he's calling the church out as exactly.

Carah Burrell [01:46:38] She must be in agreement to some level of degree.

John Dehlin [01:46:41] Like, that's what I want to know. Whoever my sources were to let me know that Tim Ballard got excommunicated, let me know if, if his wife is now being threatened with, with her membership because people have been excommunicated for far less. Like Lee and Cody Young literally were excommunicated for starting a support group for questioning Mormons in Ohio. Like that's why they were excommunicated. Like his wife. Is it Catherine?

Carah Burrell [01:47:08] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:47:09] She should absolutely be excommunicated for supporting him.

Carah Burrell [01:47:13] Yeah. I mean, I won't, I'm not trying to be controversial here, just. But it does make me wonder like how she makes sense of all of this and what their relationship is really like. So this is Tim's, you know, Public relations meltdown. How does he say these things about the church? What audience is he trying to appeal to? So he appears on the pro LDS channel last dispensation to repair his image.

John Dehlin [01:47:40] Are you saying he likely paid to be on that show? Is that alleged?

Carah Burrell [01:47:44] It is my personal alleging from my personal sources. You have sources? I have sources. Sometimes they are proven true. I have never been proven false as you shall know.

John Dehlin [01:47:54] Wow.

Carah Burrell [01:47:55] 100 Tim Ballard pays to be Andre Able show. Which is sad. That's. That should be the.

John Dehlin [01:48:03] That's called Paola. As far as I know, no one's paid to be on Mormon stories. As far as I know, no one's

Carah Burrell [01:48:11] paid to be on the Carabarella YouTube channel. As far as I sadly regret.

John Dehlin [01:48:16] But I mean I've done over 2, 000 episodes so I guess I could be misremembering but I can't remember someone me bringing someone on because they paid me. I don't think that's ever happened.

Carah Burrell [01:48:26] Yeah, well, it's like, you know, you have a platform. People's messages need to get out. So basically as I it is understood to me, Tim goes on Julie Green's podcast and he is kind of hyped up. Maybe he's on drugs, maybe he's not in the middle of Jerusalem, I don't know. These are again allegations he's saying things about the church really fast and loose with his mouth that he goes on the LDS channel last dispensation to kind of repair his image after the Julie Green show backlash that Mormons are wondering, tim, did you lose your testimony? Why are you railing against the church? He's had to make Instagram and Facebook posts about his testimony in the church is stronger than ever. And so Tim is demanding though that the church retract its public statements and acknowledge the devastating damage they caused to his family, colleagues and the critical work rescuing children, women and children. And then he asserts in this interview with Troy Abels that the LDS PR guy Doug Anderson and the Deep State media participated in a coordinated effort to bring him down and must publicly retract their reckless statements. And Tim is also always very quick to point out his long held relationship with Senior Apostle M. Russell Ballard. And in this interview with Troy. I don't have time to play this section, but he plays a call. It's in my other video on my YouTube channel where he plays a clip of Catherine, his wife, talking about a phone call that she. She made right after this denouncement statement. And she recounts contacting Elder Ballard after the Vice statement came out and being told that apparently she said that M. Russell Ballard knew nothing about the denouncement. It wasn't from him. He doesn't know who it was from. She's totally confused. They're totally confused. So you know, they interpret that as like Emerald Ballard has sincere confusion. The statement was made completely without his knowledge, that that is part of the conspiracy, that it must have been done by the PR team, by Doug Anderson, by the Deep State, so that that anecdote starts to become the seed of the conspiracy in which the apostle remains good and innocent. Because Tim Ballard could never throw Emerald Ballard under the bus saying that he knew about the statement coming out. Right? So he's able to point to unnamed insiders who are acting behind the scenes to undermine Tim to issue that statement. And I think though it's clear that the church's reputation managers, they have said personally to my co host Ryan on the phone and apparently I think to Tim himself that the church has reputation managers who have said that, yes, the statement came directly from the top, that it's not some rogue insider as Tim prefers to frame it. So Tim does not want to accept the truth that it came from the prophet.

Guest 2 [01:51:18] So.

Will Tim Ballard Hurt the Mormon Church?

John Dehlin [01:51:19] So in the survey that I shared on YouTube, 130 of you have voted. Please like this episode. Please subscribe to the channel. But while you're at. Looks like 81 say that Tim Ballard's attacks will harm. Oh, sorry. Will not harm the church. 81% say Tim Ballard will not harm the church with this and 19% say that he will. What do you think, Carah? I mean, I was going to say this, that. Sorry, I may, I'm answering before you give me a chance to answer, but we know that the church has decided to be really politically neutral around Trump and around MAGA and that sort of thing. And so if, if Trump is really heavily favored and loved by people who tend to be Trump supporters, which would make sense, that would be a potential problem that the church ends up sowing because by having such a strong mega presence in the church, I think that does potentially make the church a little more. More vulnerable to Tim Ballard hurting the church. Because will MAGA people knowing that Trump and Tim Ballard were sort of in bed together, will they be inclined to believe Tim Ballard over the church and to believe him that like the federal government, the Mormon Church is infiltrated by, you know, pedophiles?

Carah Burrell [01:52:57] I think, I think it'll probably end up being awash somewhere in the middle that most Mormons know that there's the corporation side, and then there's the theology side. And if you read a comment section under Tim Ballard's videos or his Facebook posts, you know, a lot of people are along the lines of, like, what matters most is your relationship with the Lord, you know, going back to that kind of talk. So how could Tim Ballard possibly hurt, you know, my mom and Provo, Utah's relationship with the Lord? Like, he can't do that.

John Dehlin [01:53:27] So, yeah, people are claiming I'm being political. I'm not. I'm literally just trying to talk about who's more likely to like Tim Ballard and potentially be influenced by him within the church. And because again, if you all missed us earlier, we want Mormon stories to be nonpartisan, to be friendly to all sources, but it's an objective fact that Ballard appeared on a podcast with Trump either at Mar a Lago or in the White House. So it's just the fact that there's going to be a Venn diagram of LDS Church Trump supporters who also like or want to believe Tim Ballard because of his association with Trump. Am I being political by saying that?

Carah Burrell [01:54:12] And to further add to that, like, he has profited off of the QAnon conspiracy, like, right leaning portion of the Republican Party as part of his base for fundraising. Like, that's undeniable and that is that that leans on one side of the political spectrum and not the other. So where he finds his base, where he finds his fundraising, where his followers will follow him if he's, you know, further alienated from the church, that's. I'm just speaking to what, what base is. Is going to prop him up next.

John Dehlin [01:54:40] Sometimes people are very fragile. It's like if you just say the word of their candidate, you're somehow bashing their candidate. Y' all need to be a little more resilient. Okay?

Carah Burrell [01:54:51] Yeah.

John Dehlin [01:54:52] And Joshua Davidson says Trump was literally on Tim Ballard's podcast. So, I mean, like, please tell me you can see that connection without claiming we're taking sides or being political. Okay, Carah, what's next?

Tim Ballard Explains Why He Supports the 2023 Statement

Carah Burrell [01:55:06] So this is the pivoting in his messaging is before the 2023 statement, Tim, you know, publicly praised the leaders and of the church as prophet seers and revelators. And part of his inspiration to do his missions. And then after that statement, now those same leaders or the employees of the church have become part of a conspiracy that protects satanic child abuse and sabotage of submission. So what follows is his attempt to justify that interpretation. So this is where we get to get into Mormon and biblical kind of theology gathering of Israel stuff. So again, shout out to my co host of my Timmy did what podcast, Ryan, for helping make sense of this to me, because I had to listen to this 10,000 times for it to make sense. But John, you will watch this clip number 26, and you tell me what you hear from this. This is Tim Ballard's theological reasoning of how he's able to have these two coexisting ideas exist.

John Dehlin [01:56:08] And before we show that, I'll just show again, there's a picture of Tim Ballard with former most senior LDS Church apostle M. Russell Ballard, just to show how tight they were. They were homies. Okay? So let's go ahead and now play that clip.

Brian Mortensen Admits He's Been Myopic About the Mormon

Guest 2 [01:56:25] Decision made by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I know deep states are real. I know that the best organizations in the world will be infiltrated. It's prophesied all over the scriptures that it's going to happen. So in beautiful irony, as I watch it happen, I'm like, oh, the prophets were right. The scriptures were right. This is going to happen. And it's important that everybody knows the truth about what's. What's going on. And it's severe. The action is taken by certain people inside this corporation, alcohol, corporation, or institutions that to me, does not represent the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints. It's very severe what they've done. They involved themselves in a mass conspiracy, potentially civil, possibly criminal. I can't talk much about it. I know more than I can say. Okay. And I'm sorry if anyone got confused thinking that I've lost my testimony of the Gospel. It's only increased. First of all, my faith in Jesus Christ is through the roof. And my understanding of his love for all people, like these Druze people. You know, I think sometimes I have been guilty of being a little myopic. Sometimes I think the son of the House of Israel, you know, rose and set in Salt Lake City. And I've been guilty of that. It's not the truth. This was the restoration remnant the times of the Gentiles. It was. It was beautiful. It did an amazing job. Okay? And. And to watch that and be. Have been part of that. But the gathering of Israel, let's be clear, it's only a small percentage of that is. Is. Is beautiful young men in white shirts and sisters in dresses teaching the.

John Dehlin [01:57:48] Yeah, he's basically saying. He's basically saying that he's. He's pivoting towards Christianity. He's saying that the Christianity is way bigger than Mormonism. He's almost admitting that he's been guilty of. Of filtering Christianity through the lens of moral Mormonism. But now he's seeing that this is just one place to be Christian of many.

Carah Burrell [01:58:09] Yeah, right. And in addition to that, he's saying, I've been very myopic in my life, and when I first heard that, I laughed because it's like, oh, the guy who, you know, went for two years to learn how to speak Spanish and Chile and convert people to the one true, everlasting gospel for which you have to be converted to. To be in the highest kingdom of the celestial, you know, kingdom to live forever with your heavenly Father and your family. Again, might have thought, wait a second, might have been a little myopic after all. And he's saying that the time of the Gentiles, as it's been prophesied, will come to an end, that the church, like, is supposed to be the, The. The. The rising and the setting of, of Christ's reign on earth. And he's like, actually, I've been kind of myopic, like, to take that back, maybe the church isn't all that it's been cracked up to be. And the, the scriptures relating to the church, though, are still true. He will still reference dnc, but he's talking about a greater gathering of Israel that doesn't always coalesce right there in Salt Lake City, Utah. So, yes, speaking a language that greater Christians and people of other religions can understand while also speaking it in the same theological language that Mormons can understand. Very, very fascinating to me.

John Dehlin [01:59:26] Yeah, somebody made. Made the point. This is Brian Mortensen. He's saying Tim wants to pick a fight with the Mormon Church to find a new audience maga Christians. Does that sound right? That he's basically infiltrating the YouTube conservative Christian movement? Yeah, to. To be embraced by them. And I think. I don't know. I don't know if they're going to be eager to hear conspiracies about satanic ritual abuse in the Mormon Church. I mean, we do know that. That some of the people that are affiliated with Charlie Kirk and Turning Point, especially evangelical Christians, like to see the Mormon Church as satanic. And yeah, they certainly a lot of evangelical Christians think the Mormon Church is evil. So it would capitalize on that. He could cozy with those people.

Carah Burrell [02:00:32] Right.

John Dehlin [02:00:33] And try and capitalize on that.

Carah Burrell [02:00:34] Right. And the comment section underneath the Julie Green video has a lot of people saying, like, yes, he found the right Jesus. I knew the Mormon Church was evil, so. So he, for all intents and Purposes was fine with amplifying that message to a certain audience that you know are coming on board. Like, yay, he found the right Jesus. And then he's like, actually, wait, let me thread this needle a little stronger.

John Dehlin [02:00:56] So let me just really quickly tell people, if y' all really love Car Barell and really value what she's bringing to this podcast, what I'm going to promise is all super chats made during this episode will for sure go to Carah. So if you want to throw Carah a little extra bone, I promise that she will be paid at least the amount of total super chats donated, if not more.

Carah Burrell [02:01:21] Thanks.

John Dehlin [02:01:23] So please support Karen.

Carah Burrell [02:01:25] All right, that was perfect timing.

John Dehlin [02:01:26] Okay.

Carah Burrell [02:01:27] Because my kid's dad just barely said, hey, I'm bringing the kids over. And I'm like, I'm not home. I'm at home Stories.

John Dehlin [02:01:32] I'm making this too long, aren't I?

Carah Burrell [02:01:34] No, we're going to be here all night. I said, okay. I can't see my children for at least the next 24 hours. I'm recording with John Dylan.

John Dehlin [02:01:40] Okay.

Will The Restored Church Be Infiltrated by Secret Combinations

Carah Burrell [02:01:41] So Tim is so claiming that his leverage that he possesses, you know, is these shocking, sinister things about the Mormon Church. He claims, though, that all true organizations get infiltrated by evil, including the LDS Church and the United States government, argues that infiltration by secret combinations is actually a sign an organization is real and godly. And in his interview, it's so interesting, he shifts his language, calling the church a corporation when he's criticizing its actions. But the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, when talking about faithful members. And then he'll say things like anti Mormon. But he's like, I mean, anti lds because it's like, have you been hanging around with the. The. The. The evangelical crowd saying anti Mormon? So he's trying to kind of code switch in real time of who he's talking about. And if you're not paying attention, you don't see the game that he's playing. But I do. I'm paying attention.

John Dehlin [02:02:37] Is that Mormon theology? Is that in the Book of Mormon or the Doctrine and Covenants? That the. The Restored Church in the last days will be infiltrated by secret combinations? I don't remember ever learning I came

Carah Burrell [02:02:49] literally here to ask you that question, and you don't know it.

John Dehlin [02:02:52] I mean, there. There. There are sort of like verses in the Doctrine and Covenants that allege that even the elect shall fall. There'll be a church of the firstborn. And there's something about someone mighty and strong coming, you know, to Bolster up the church in the latter day sort of thing. And that's the type of garbage that Avram Gileadi, who's one of the September Six operated under. And you know, even Brian David Mitchell, the guy who abducted Elizabeth Smart. There's been many, many a prepper Mormon or a millennialistic Mormon that viewed themselves as the one mighty and strong, as foretold by the Doctrine and Covenants, who had come to rescue the church once it aired. In its ways, it's certainly not orthodox modern LDS Church theology that the church is going to be overrun by secret combinations. But in the conspiracy prepper crowd, I think, you know, that's what Chad Daybell and Lori Vala thought. That's. That's what Tim Ballard thought. That's what Tom Harrison feels about himself. But I don't know that that's theological. Really quickly, let's show the John McNaughton photo of Tim Ballard rescuing a child as he walks along the Underground Railroad.

Carah Burrell [02:04:15] And there's like Harriet Tubman kneeling and Lincoln kneeling and. Yep.

John Dehlin [02:04:22] So I Wonder if John McNaughton regrets that painting or if he's proud of it still.

Carah Burrell [02:04:28] Let's get him on here and ask. Okay, next interview.

John Dehlin [02:04:31] Let's do it.

LDS Church's Failed Watchmen Theory

Carah Burrell [02:04:32] So, yeah, the theology again is just so interesting because the LDS Church as a corporation is the container of the theology that people operate some of these crazy town things and do all kinds of offshoots that we've spoken about. And the church does have a difficult time trying to be a corporation and a theological institution. So this failed watchman theory is where he's going next. And if anyone else wants to add to theology of this, any Bible scholars want to send a super chat in to explain more, but basically this is the gist of it.

John Dehlin [02:05:05] Doug Vincent, by the way, said a super chat and says Carah gets some Taco Bell. I get that joke.

Carah Burrell [02:05:11] Just.

John Dehlin [02:05:11] Do you remember that joke?

Carah Burrell [02:05:12] I do. Throwing it way back. I just had some cafe Rio. Thank you. So if you go to like number 28. Slide. So Tim uses scriptures about watchmen on the tower, drunkards of Ephraim and the time of the Gentiles to argue that the leaders have fallen asleep and been infiltrated. Current LDS leadership have are the failed watchmen. Tim is the true servant called into the vineyard to gather Israel. And Tim positions his work in Syria with the Druze communities as fulfillment of prophecies about the gathering of Israel when the Gentile era ends.

John Dehlin [02:05:51] Yeah, well, I noticed he's been like hang creating stuff in. He's been Creating video footage in Jerusalem.

Carah Burrell [02:06:00] Yeah.

John Dehlin [02:06:01] Claiming to save who? Like, what's that pivot about?

Carah Burrell [02:06:04] So how much time do you have? I just did a video last week with Ryan because we were trying to figure out for so long what he was doing in Syria and Israel. And I won't speculate yet if he's being paid by Israel $7,000 a post because he is in some financial and legal debt. And that would really help a guy out and it would make sense of all the things he's posting now. That is very, very, very pro Israel. So that was my, my first inkling. I'm waiting for more evidence on that. But, like, what is he doing in Syria? What is doing with the Druze people? So if you go to our YouTube channel of a live that we did last week, you can find out more. But he is positioning himself basically in a war zone to get more video footage and possibly working for the state of Israel. But he is working on behalf of. Not the State Department, though. He's acting like he is. It's a. He's dropped into Syria without any official status to go and collect some intel about. About what ISIS and the communities and the war was happening there in Syria.

John Dehlin [02:07:09] So he's fighting ISIS in the Middle East.

Carah Burrell [02:07:12] It's. That's what he would have you argue.

John Dehlin [02:07:14] That's like a triple down, man.

Carah Burrell [02:07:16] Yeah, like.

John Dehlin [02:07:17] Like he goes big when he, when he's down, he goes big.

Carah Burrell [02:07:21] Yeah.

John Dehlin [02:07:21] He's going to solve what, the Middle Eastern peace crisis.

Carah Burrell [02:07:24] Like he would like to. What he's really doing is he's sowing seeds of Islamophobia as much as he possibly can and making pro Israel, like pro IDF kind of content out there, amongst other things. But the full explanation is on our, our YouTube channel of what he's doing in Syria. But.

John Dehlin [02:07:43] All right, really quickly, super chat. Real4Life Kim D. Thanks for streaming. I keep learning new things. My shelf broke in 2020. I appreciate both of you. Thank you, Rio for life. All right, Carol, what's next?

Tim Ballard: The Mormon Church Has Been Infiltrated by

Carah Burrell [02:07:55] All right, so we'll play the next clip. Slide 29. This is. The Watchmen are asleep, you know.

John Dehlin [02:08:01] All right, let's hear it, Timmy.

Guest 2 [02:08:05] But look, that's part of it. But that's not the great gathering. When he sets his hand a second time. In fact, the scriptures are very clear. He says, when I set my hand a second time to gather Israel, you will know when I'm doing that. When the time of the gentiles is fulfilled. Okay, so there comes an end to the current. According to the scriptures, the current system, the current institution, you know, it's never going to go away. Better not. No, it's not. It's going to stay. It might change some of its mission to support the gathering of all people. Read John, read Revelations. Read DNC 101. The Nobleman in the vineyard. Look what happens. The Lord comes to set his hand a second time in the vineyard, and he calls servants to come in. And we have to be honest with the fact that there's watchmen on the tower that weren't doing their job. Isaiah calls them the drunkards of Ephraim. And there's. There's a problem. It's okay. They shouldn't affect your testimony. No. If anything, increase your testimony because the prophecies that are scattered throughout Doctrine Covenants, Book of Mormon, every, all the standard works is being fulfilled.

John Dehlin [02:09:03] Okay, so. So the Mormon Church has been infiltrated by satanic child abusers and it shouldn't affect our testimony. In fact, it should strengthen our testimony.

Carah Burrell [02:09:15] Yeah. Because good things get infiltrated. And I made a joke on my podcast that had me and Ryan cracking up that the best things get infiltrated. You remember that Mormon ad with the cockroach and the ice cream?

John Dehlin [02:09:27] Yes, yes, yes.

Carah Burrell [02:09:29] That was supposed to keep us from watching PG13 movies. John, the best things get infiltrated. That's how you know the ice cream is good, because so many cockroaches are getting in it.

John Dehlin [02:09:40] I mean, he's really jumped the shark. Oh, my gosh, I can't believe this.

Carah Burrell [02:09:44] Isn't it fun?

John Dehlin [02:09:45] Don't let this affect your testimony. In fact, pay more tithing. Go preach the gospel. The church is even more true now that it's been infiltrated by satanic child abusers than it's ever been. It's more true today.

Carah Burrell [02:09:59] Is there a precedent? I mean, I should ask you, John DeLand of Mormon Stories, is there a precedent for this kind of apologetic of like, when your brain is telling you this does not add up. The fact that it has been infiltrated. The fact that, you know, Joseph Smith took too many wives, you know, like that means that it's more true because the truest things have the most problems with it. Like, I don't know if he's trying to, you know, levy some kind of Mormon cognitive dissonance that already exists, but that's a pretty big one to go for.

John Dehlin [02:10:36] Yeah. And of course, again, belief is resilient and people under the influence of high demand religions believe all sorts of things. As, you know, when the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Leaders of the Jehovah's witnesses in the 1800s and even early 1900s gave a date where they knew Jesus was going to come. Jesus came and went. They blamed the members on not being righteous enough. And the members testimonies got stronger.

Guest [02:11:03] Right.

Carah Burrell [02:11:04] So, I mean, perfect sense.

John Dehlin [02:11:05] Yeah. But what. What strikes me is how he's quoting scripture so automatically, like, this guy reads the scriptures and has an automatic interpretation of his theology. And I'm sure the whole visions of glory prepper Mormon crowd is interpreting Mormon scripture similarly to Tim Ballard, wouldn't you say?

Carah Burrell [02:11:30] Yeah, that's a great point that Ryan made on our podcast about how narcissistic can you possibly get that when he reads Isaiah and Doctrine and Covenants in the Book of Mormon prophecies, Tim sees himself in the text. He thinks that the time of the Gentiles is ending. And he wouldn't know that, nobody would know that unless his excommunication came out, that he is that linchpin that is setting everything into place. He reads himself in the text similar to what Joseph Smith was doing when he was restoring the church.

John Dehlin [02:12:01] Yeah. He's only doing what Joseph did because Joseph literally wrote himself into the Book of Mormon.

Carah Burrell [02:12:07] Exactly.

John Dehlin [02:12:08] And you know, many, many of the scripture he produced. Yeah, yeah.

Carah Burrell [02:12:12] So Tim implies that he's the one true servant called when the Lord sets his hand a second time to gather Israel, he portrays his excommunication as proof that infiltrated watchmen are persecuting the true servant rather than evidence of his own sins, his own misconduct. So which we will get into of what's really been happening behind the scenes. And if you don't know what Tim has been alleged to have doing, it makes. It makes me all the more angry that he is the one invoking the name of Jesus Christ and these holy scriptures and, you know, the faithfulness of good, righteous members, as if he had done nothing wrong. Where in his mind, he has to know the horrific things that he may or may not have done.

John Dehlin [02:12:52] Kind of our narcissistic vibes here. I'm going to say it. What is this photo that you.

Carah Burrell [02:12:56] Oh, that's the Gadian robbers.

John Dehlin [02:12:58] Okay, and how does that tie to Tim?

Carah Burrell [02:13:01] Because the watchmen on the tower and the Gadian Robbers, it's all about, you know, evil forces at work against God's country church.

John Dehlin [02:13:09] Got it. Okay. All right.

Tim Ballard: The Failed Watchmen of the Mormon Church

Carah Burrell [02:13:11] So the failed watchmen in Tim's story,

John Dehlin [02:13:15] who are these failed watchmen on?

Carah Burrell [02:13:18] He's telling us exactly who they are. This is who's been prophesied of The Watchman has a name. It is Doug Anderson.

John Dehlin [02:13:26] Could there be a more pedestrian name, by the way? May as well be Chad.

Carah Burrell [02:13:30] I know, dude. So the church PR guy is the failed watchman. So in Tim's story, Doug is the one who sent the September 2023 statement to Vice that Soros funded pro pedophile anti church statement to Vice News that coincidentally was also posted around the Internet on every other publication, including the church's own publications. So that statement labeled Tim's actions morally unacceptable and said that he betrayed the friendship. Right. With M. Russell Ballard. So for Tim, Doug is the Watchman whose words supposedly triggered everything that came next. The news cycle, the excommunication, the lawsuits, the deep church storyline.

John Dehlin [02:14:12] Can I just call BS on that? Because as someone who appealed my excommunication. When you appeal your excommunication, Carah Burrell, who does it go to?

Carah Burrell [02:14:21] Hopefully, the prophet.

John Dehlin [02:14:22] It goes to the first presidency and the prophet.

Guest [02:14:24] Yeah.

John Dehlin [02:14:25] And they denied his appeal.

Carah Burrell [02:14:27] And I have some.

John Dehlin [02:14:27] So who are the watchmen on the tower that failed care.

Carah Burrell [02:14:30] The literal prophet that he is still

John Dehlin [02:14:32] claiming the first presidency. Yeah, it's not Doug. It's the first presidency that denied his excommunication appeal.

Carah Burrell [02:14:38] And wherever he can, he says that I don't think President Nelson saw it, because if he did, he'd be on

John Dehlin [02:14:42] my side, you know, so he's saying they don't do their job. That. What, there's an auto pen.

Guest 2 [02:14:46] That's.

John Dehlin [02:14:47] That's rich. Yeah, there's an auto pen that signs first presidency excommunication appeal denials. Like, right. Oh, oops.

Carah Burrell [02:14:57] Yeah. So Tim gets a call from an insider. This is also part of a story. He says that he got a call from an insider in D.C. saying that at least $10 million has been invested to destroy him with the goal to block his path to the USNA seat and that they saw him as Trump's guy to rescue children all over the world. And that Tim says that this insider warned him that the attack would feel like a bag of bricks and that. That he's like, is it going to come from. I was told that this bag of bricks was going to hit me any day now. Was it going to come from the cartels in Mexico? Was it going to come from the traffickers in Colombia? Came from the place I least suspected. It came from Doug Anderson, the PR department of my church. And as I will explain, like, yep, I think you knew that that was coming, Tim. Like, don't act so surprised. So he. He's putting the. The onus and the responsibility of his entire downfall on literally his stake president and Doug the PR guy and putting them at the same echelon as traffickers, as cartel members. And that $10 million was supposedly given to somebody within the church to stop his Senate run and to stop him from saving sex traffic kids. And how funny is that that Tim thinks that $10 million would do jack within $300 billion corporation. That is some pocket change there, Tim. So that is the story that he's telling his Mormon.

John Dehlin [02:16:27] Really quickly, Shane Wilson says that Soros is funding me and you care, Barell, Is that true? Is. Is your channel funded by Soros?

Carah Burrell [02:16:36] I haven't checked my mailbox in a while. I should go look.

John Dehlin [02:16:39] But yeah, again, this is. This is silliness. Although I will totally believe that the Mormon Church has been willing to invest and has encouraged others to donate tens of millions of dollars to defeat Tim Ballard's Senate run. Because can you imagine the PR disaster for the state of Utah and the LDS Church if Tim had won his Senate seat after. And then after it was discovered that he was an alleged, you know, sexual predator and that he allegedly was buddies with EM Ballard and that he was involved in. In allegedly fraudulent jumps, etc. Etc. I mean, it would have been a PR disaster for the church if he had been elected. And I really, really do believe he would have been elected.

Carah Burrell [02:17:35] Yeah.

John Dehlin [02:17:36] For sure.

Guest 2 [02:17:37] Yeah.

John Dehlin [02:17:37] If. If the church hadn't denounced him.

Carah Burrell [02:17:39] Yeah. And not just the church, but like the Republican Party, generally speaking. Like, so. Oh, you are. Everyone's going to have to deal with their mitigation of this scandal and it just got siphoned out before it turned into a bigger powder keg.

John Dehlin [02:17:56] Yeah.

Doug Smith's Statement on Child Trafficking

Carah Burrell [02:17:56] So Tim's plot to hurt. Or the plot to hurt Tim and his children. So Tim claims that Doug's statement violated the church's scripture and policy by going 200 million miles out of the bounds and became the fruit of the poisonous tree for his local leaders, investigators and foreign governments saying that they took this statement that was in Vice News and that is what halted his Senate run. That is the fruit of the poisonous tree. That. That's the only thing that his stake president decided to excommunicate him off of, was saying, I have this statement and you're out of here, kid. Tim says that traffickers, pedophiles and godless leftists now use the church's statement to question his credibility and block his operations and kick him out of countries like Argentina, completely disregarding the actual things. I don't have time to get into of the reasons why he was actually kicked out of Argentina, the credible reasons why he was kicked out of Operation Underground Railroad. He's saying that it all came down to Doug and this church statement. So in Tim's telling, Doug's press release is a weapon in the hands of child traffickers and isis. And I just put up Doug's cute little picture there from. That's the guy who is at the same rank.

John Dehlin [02:19:12] This guy's powerful. He's got Riz.

Carah Burrell [02:19:14] This is. He's the one helping isis. He's the one helping the traffickers and

John Dehlin [02:19:20] the brother not wise enough to see it.

Tim Anderson Retracts Doug Anderson's Lie

Carah Burrell [02:19:22] So if you want to play 33, this is a short clip from my latest episode from last week, which is fabulous. We cover different things than this episode, but it's fabulous. You should go watch it. So this is Tim saying, basically, retract the lie from Doug or the kids get it.

John Dehlin [02:19:38] I will say that. I will say that we haven't heard a lot from Doug Anderson since he was hired as a church pr. Like, the guy doesn't speak out much. Am I wrong?

Carah Burrell [02:19:52] Have you ever seen a Miss Healthy doesn't speak out? But it does say something that Tim, he's still employed by the church. Like, every PR statement that's put out, you can read. It says, like, from the offices of, like, Doug Anderson. If you. It comes from his email address. Right? So, like, if the church wanted to fire him, they could have. But Tim is still, like, that guy's still employed. Why, I oughta. Yeah.

Tim Ballard Claims His Stake President Didn't Excommunicate Him

John Dehlin [02:20:14] All right, let's.

Guest 2 [02:20:16] Let's run the next clip that was done giving them. I gave them cover for two years out of respect, thinking someone would come forward. I can no longer do that. I now have visuals. I've seen videos of children, like, in Argentina that I couldn't go back and get largely because of this live from Doug Anderson.

John Dehlin [02:20:32] And I'm so. Again, I'm just. He cares so much about children that he sat on the. The Mormon Church being involved in satanic ritual abuse of children. He sat on that for two years to what? To. To give the church the benefit of the doubt. Like, is that courageous, Rambo style protection of children to just go silent for two years because you think someone else might come forward? Like, that does not. That's not on brand, Timmy. It's not on brand.

Carah Burrell [02:21:04] And again, it goes back the very beginning. It wasn't about saving kids. It was about saving his reputation, his. His bank account. And it gets clearer and clearer with everything he says because he can't shut his mouth.

John Dehlin [02:21:15] Now, why in the world you gotta include a photo Tim Ballard in underwear? What?

Carah Burrell [02:21:19] This was on your thumbnail once upon a time. Everyone's eyes are bleached now.

John Dehlin [02:21:23] What the heck is that?

Carah Burrell [02:21:25] So Tim claims that his stake president at the time met with him weekly, knew about his dark and sexual undercover work, and believed him and did not want to excommunicate him. So in Tim's telling of the story, I go over more on my YouTube channel, but in essence, he is good friends with his stake president and these allegations come out. He says to Tim, they are telling me to hold an excommunication trial for you. He's like, I'm not going to do that because I know that you're innocent. I know you. We've been meeting together on a weekly basis to talk about your couple's ruse stuff. And. And Tim's like, I didn't meet with him because I was sinning. It's just because sometimes I'm involved in some dark, nefarious things my stake president knew about. And then because his stake president wouldn't hold this council, he's removed and a new stake president is put in and Tim has to go to this council. And apparently, in Tim's telling of it, the stake president is very pompous and arrogant with his hands behind his back, and he's brings him and his wife in and he's like, yep, we have some things to talk about. And he's like, I don't even know what I'm accused of. Like, who, what are you asking? Is it financial? Like, I thought it had something to do with my. My financial ties to M. Russell Ballard.

John Dehlin [02:22:42] So.

Carah Burrell [02:22:43] And Tim's telling, he's. He's going to this excommunication hearing having no idea why he's being excommunicated, as if it's like, nothing to do with the couple's ruse. Nothing to do with the fact he was just kicked out of our. And. And offered a severance and like, had all these allegations and investigations that just happened months previous in September 2023, right after the statement comes out. He's acting like, oh, it must be. I, like, filed my taxes wrong and this is a QuickBooks problem. So he basically gets excommunicated in this, this, this council from a stake president. And what Tim is what, in his interpretation of events, he's like, this person was put in place to excommunicate me. They're part of the deep, deep state of the church. But my original stake president, he wouldn't have excommunicated me because he's a good guy who knows me. And it's like no, I think it's the opposite. He wouldn't excommunicate you because you guys were too buddy, buddy. So the church, the higher ups removed him and put somebody in the in place that would excommunicate you, which is what they did. Yeah.

John Dehlin [02:23:44] And just to kind of give my two cents on that, it's absolutely true that the Mormon Church removes stake presidents when they won't excommunicate someone the Mormon Church wants them to excommunicate. I believe they did that with my stake president. I believe they've done that with many stake presidents. So that's on brand for the church. I think it's also very likely and I've heard from sources that it's true that Tim had a lot of supporters in his ward, in his elders quorum, in his stake and even on the stake High Council. And so yeah, I think there's a lot of Mormons that, that did not want to follow the Church's instructions that excommunicated him. So I, I believe that part actually.

Carah Burrell [02:24:30] Yeah. So in Tim's framing pr, Doug's statement is the foundational evidence for xing him and his local stake president that was put in place. Jared hall was the executioner. And then Tim says that he's a victim of top down Gadd aten manipulation inside the church. Where what probably happened is. Yeah, like people with that were his friends wouldn't excommunicate him. But the Church probably had ample evidence that they needed to cut off Tim's association with the church before things exploded further. And they were just handling the brand manager of it, handling brand management of it all.

John Dehlin [02:25:11] And yeah, our, our good friend Rebecca Loveless writes. Hey Rebecca, Ryan Fisher brought up a good point that the Church would never excommunicate Tim based on allegations. They don't do that. And I think that's true. As far as I know, the Church hasn't excommunicated Lori Valo yet. Like the Church will go to great lengths to not excommunicate somebody, including as I understand it, thousands of known pedophiles the Church chose not to excommunicate. So the Church isn't at all trigger happy to excommunicate people unless they are public apostates in the Church's view or they do something to damage the Church's reputation or to become a PR nightmare. That's when the Church is likely going to excommunicate somebody, in my opinion.

Carah Burrell [02:26:00] Yeah, dead On. Yeah, and I have something else on that topic that I'll get into in a second. So, in Tim's prophetic end of times frame, Tim claims that Brigham Young and Ezra Taft Benson. This is a post that I'm referencing from his Facebook from a couple days ago, that Brigham Young and Ezra Taft Benson were also victims of deep church purges. And he says that the church leaders have turned sacred covenants into political poker chips. And he calls the excommunication leverage the church lost, implying he's beyond discipline now. Claims Isaiah, Brigham Young and Benson prophesied of this moment, again writing himself into prophecy and scripture. He paints himself as an unmasker of corruption, one the church can't silence twice. So this solidifies his self image that he's not rebelling against the Church. He's fulfilling prophecy inside of it.

Tim Ballard Claims Brigham Young and Ezra Taft Benson Were Purges

John Dehlin [02:26:52] I mean, I. I know, I don't know what they mean by Brigham Young was a purge. Like Brigham Young died, as I understand it, of old age and he died as the prophet. So I don't know where in the world he's getting this allegation that Brigham Young was part of a purge. If anybody in the comments section knows kind of the prepper or fundamentalist theories around Brigham Young being purged from the Church, he was the church. If any, if anybody was ever the Mormon Church, it was Brigham Young. So somebody explained to me how Brigham Young was the victim of a purge. When I believe he died of old age, Ezra T. Benson again became prophet of the Church. I do know that in the 60s or 70s he was spouting so much John Bircher garbage that they sent him to Europe to kind of silence him. And they claimed he was moved to Europe to help in place post World War II reconstruction. But that was not a purge because he stayed in the quorum of the 12 and ended up president of the Church. And by the way, I'm a cousin of Ezra Benson. So anyway, yeah, the sacred covenant says political poker chips. Sorry, Tim Ballard. Excommunication has always been a political choice. And just look at Oliver Cowdery's excommunication for accurately accusing Joseph Smith of adultery and instead being excommunicated for disobeying the word of wisdom and, I don't know, making false allegations. Excommunications. If we're going to talk about a ruse, many, many, many modern Mormon, excommunications are a ruse really quickly. And again, writing himself into scriptures. Yeah, he's just doing what Joseph did. Honestly, Carah, we keep mentioning the couple's ruse I don't think we've really explained. Okay, okay. Stop mentioning it until you explain it. All right.

Trump on His 2020 Presidential Run

Carah Burrell [02:28:53] All right. We're two slides away.

John Dehlin [02:28:54] Okay.

Carah Burrell [02:28:55] Because I wanted to.

John Dehlin [02:28:55] I'm joking. You're doing great. People love you.

Carah Burrell [02:28:58] Thanks.

John Dehlin [02:28:58] We love you. Thank you.

Carah Burrell [02:28:59] Could feel it more. Thank you, guys. So we can play Slide 37 now that Tim came from the Prophet. So this is.

Doug Anderson on President Nelson and the Satanic Abuse

John Dehlin [02:29:10] This is the next video.

Carah Burrell [02:29:11] Yeah.

John Dehlin [02:29:12] All right. Next video from Tim Ballard.

Guest 2 [02:29:17] Well, so. Yeah. So. Confusing message. And then to make matters worse, the state president said. This came from President Nelson. Said. Really? President Nelson defamed me, Elder Ballard, and sent it to a tabloid. Are you sure you want to stand by that story? And I. I welcome the state president to come on and say it out loud. He said it to me. He said to others, the prophet wrote this statement. The prophet didn't write the statement. I can't believe he. He. He falsely used President Nelson's name, attached it to a statement, and said it's from him. I guess you're judging Israel. You can do whatever you want. You can invoke anyone. And you. You already invoke Jesus, so now I guess you can invoke his. His. His prophet, too. And that's what he. He decided to do. So I know for a fact that President Nelson did not do what the SIG president.

John Dehlin [02:29:58] Can I just say how ridiculous and improbable it is that Doug Anderson would create an official statement from the church denouncing a beloved influencer with millions of followers, and that he would do it without approval from the First Presidency of the Quorum of the Twelve and without the approval of the apostle, the senior apostle, that. That. That the press release references. There's zero probability that that's true. Yeah, I mean, I know These dudes are 80 and 90 years old, but there's zero chance M. Russell Ballard did not know that he was referenced in that press release. In my opinion.

Carah Burrell [02:30:45] Right.

John Dehlin [02:30:45] Even if he was. Even if he was senile or with Alzheimer's, his family would have been warned. You know, like, there's no chance that no one was notified, and the. Doug just went rogue. And by the way, he's still employed by the church. Like, why wouldn't it. If Doug had done that, if Doug had issued that press release and named M. Russell Ballard but didn't consult him and made false allegations involving a senior apostle, would Doug still have his job in the Deep State Church?

Carah Burrell [02:31:19] Yeah, like, it's pretty obvious, Tim. So he's. He's trying to play, you know, big shot there where he's like, are you sure you want to implicate the prophet of the church that he knew about this statement? It's like, yeah, yeah. Like they're. These guys are kind of like, I think this is their second job, kind of. This is a stake president who's got a family to go home to at 6pm let's wrap this up, Tim. Like, I think we know where this is going, but so. And then I'll end on.

John Dehlin [02:31:47] What's the second clip?

Carah Burrell [02:31:48] So the second clip is him again, using the satanic abuse as a bargaining chip so we can play.

John Dehlin [02:31:52] I can't get enough of that. So I'm. I'm glad we're playing into your veins.

Guest [02:31:56] Okay.

Guest 2 [02:31:56] I don't know who knew what, when, where, how. I don't know. But unfortunately for them, I think, fortunately for the world, it's all going to come out. And I got to go back to the apostles that don't go down the rabbit hole in satanic ritual abuse. They didn't want me to do it. I wanted to lock arms with them and go find it together. They didn't want me to do it. I think many do want. Glenn Page wanted him to do it. He's the guy that wants. Wrote the memo and said, it is happening. Look, I'm not going to judge. I don't know things yet. But I will say that the torch that I dropped because they knocked me off my horse, and when I came back, I had so many things to do, and I was like, oh, well, there's people you know. This guy is Justin Briggs. I think his name is Jason Preston. Justin Briggs was also excommunicated for asking questions about satanic ritual abuse. But Jason Preston seems to be doing a better job than I think I could have ever done. Again, I haven't seen all this stuff, and I'm not vouching for stuff. You can't have to judge that independently. But, guys, it's coming out. It's time for it to come out. Don't. It's okay. It's okay. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful irony. Okay, DNC 101, digit 5. The vineyard is hairball is a beautiful irony because it exposes things that the watchmen who aren't doing the job they're supposed to be doing. Not all of them. Some of them are. Some servants, apparently. Come in under the. The. Under the request instruction of the Savior, the nobleman of the vineyard. And the pruning begins. Absolutely not. Everyone's gonna have a great time, but I'LL tell you who's gonna have a great time. If you love the Lord and you don't let men with titles and tithes tell you that they're your judge in Israel. And if you put your salvation or your trust in the arm of the flesh, it's not gonna be a good time for you. If your testimony is based on the Savior, you're going to see the signs. You're going to be in awe and majesty. The majesty of God will be. Will be manifest. And I'm watching it and it's beautiful. So nobody needs to worry though. I'm not. I'm not. Well, the restoration. I still believe in judges of Israel, but I believe that there are corrupt people who do things like you said, in the name of being a judge of Israel. Well, understand the root word of judge, because I don't think the ones bishops or judges of Israel state presidents, but if they are unrighteous, if they are practicing unrighteous.

Timothy McVeigh on His Speech

John Dehlin [02:34:00] Titles and ties, men's entire. How is he not denouncing the top church leadership there?

Guest [02:34:05] Yeah.

John Dehlin [02:34:06] With titles and ties. And can I just say, I have no knowledge. I'm not making any allegations. The pace of his speech is frenetic and it. It gives like cocaine or meth vibes. And again, I have no reason to believe he's on some sort of amphetamine or speed or cocaine or whatever. But the pace and the rapidity and the frenetic nature of his speech gives that vibe to me.

Guest [02:34:37] Yeah.

John Dehlin [02:34:38] Again, not making any allegations. Did. Did that come across to you like just how fast and intense?

Guest 2 [02:34:45] Yeah.

Carah Burrell [02:34:45] People have asked me if I've sped that up and it's only at 1.1 on YouTube. You don't have to go one point.

John Dehlin [02:34:49] So it is a little sped up.

Carah Burrell [02:34:50] 1.1 sped up. But even still, you can tell compared to way. The way Troy is speaking.

John Dehlin [02:34:55] Okay.

Carah Burrell [02:34:56] He is speaking really fast, really rambly.

John Dehlin [02:34:58] Yeah.

Carah Burrell [02:34:59] And yeah, some people have told me that he, you know, there are allegations of that. Of that sort.

John Dehlin [02:35:06] Well, we're not alleging it here. And let's correct that was 1.1 speed, but still slow it down by 0.1. His. Yeah, his speech seems off, but he could just be excited and intense.

Carah Burrell [02:35:19] Yeah.

John Dehlin [02:35:19] It's also weird that he's framing this as a good thing like this purge, this pruning.

Carah Burrell [02:35:24] What else is he supposed to do?

John Dehlin [02:35:26] Decline of the Mormon Church that he believes in so passionately. It's decline into a deep state. Apostasy is a. Is a call for rejoicing.

Carah Burrell [02:35:35] Yeah.

John Dehlin [02:35:35] It's something to be excited about.

Carah Burrell [02:35:36] Like, what else is he really supposed to do? Like, he really made some lemonade out of his lemons. Like, didn't eat him. So I wanted to kind of have that entire theology of Tim's entire worldview as the setup. So now you can. It is. I know we're speaking in alleged territory here, but my heart is with the victims of sex abuse wherever they come from across the world. And part of my passion for this has to do with victims who do have, you know, credible allegations of men in power within institutions like the LDS Church and powerful institutions that make people a lot of money, like our not being able to be heard when they are taken advantage of. And Tim, I believe, as it is alleged, he did the couple's ruse in ways that he was thinking that he was going to be sanctioned by our. By the apostle of the church and be able to get away with it. So part of my passion comes from exposing what was really going on behind these institutions and, and letting victims. Yeah. Try to get their justice. And I, I always try to just make a plea that if you believe the victims, I'm not saying that, you know, I have definitive proof because they're. Everything will come out in court one day, but I believe the victims. And if you believe the victims, too, I hope that they are watching now and that they can hear your support in their voices because it has been a very, very difficult battle, people not wanting their stories to get out. So if you believe them, I do hope that you will leave a comment of love and support to them. So what has been really going on, possibly allegedly behind the scenes? Number 39. While Tim was. Is now preaching about satanic infiltrators and fallen watchmen, the dark truth has been unfolding behind the scenes. The real story isn't hidden in Isaiah or a Glenn Pace memo. Tim's excommunication stems from his actions in hotel rooms, in training centers with o operators, women who trusted him, who worked for him and were told that they were saving children. So on screen, I have a picture of a few of his alleged victims, many of which who I know personally now, who I've become friends with. And it's an honor to be able to do this work, to be able to speak on behalf of victims and have a platform. So thank you, listeners. Thank you, watchers. I. I know that they appreciate this, this story being told because the judicial system might not give them the justice that they seek at this time. And then I have another picture next to.

The Tim Eyewitness Case

Tim Gunn Excommunication and the Deep State

John Dehlin [02:38:09] Is it A video.

Carah Burrell [02:38:10] And then I have a video next. So I just wanted to show the. The contrast between the picture of 2039,

John Dehlin [02:38:19] Tim with it with Glenn Beck and M. Russell Ballard.

Carah Burrell [02:38:22] Yes. So I just wanted to contrast the institutional powers that Tim has been operating within and how difficult it is for victims to be able to be heard and believed. And Tim is completely wholesale taking advantage of that. And all of Tim's theology, everything that we've been discussing today is all in an effort to smear his victims and gain re entry into the church and have a foothold in people who in our society unfortunately do not believe women. You know, if it comes at the cost of, you know, believe having to discount the words of a straight white man who has lots of institutional power, that's unfortunately the country that we live in. And I just wanted to call that out because Tim has done everything he can to silence the victims. So if you want to go to 40, we can play the clip of while Tim is talking about the deep State church. This is the allegations that have been going on.

Five Women Speak Out About Sexual Assault at Operation Underground Railroad

John Dehlin [02:39:20] All right, let's play a clip

Guest 2 [02:39:24] to

Guest [02:39:24] share the most mortifying moments of my life. Publicly, five women and one of their husbands speaking publicly for the first time outlining the details of what they say happened in their own words. How many more women have to come forward for this to be taken seriously? The five women all say they took part with Ballard or a different our employee in a so called couple's ruse. A tactic Ballard has described as being necessary to fool sex traffickers. But in lawsuits, the women alleged that the practice ultimately led to things like lap dances, showering together and sexual assault. The group says seeing Ballard publicly deny the allegations and his organization make statements that they believe discredit them is hard to hear. It's very infuriating. It's triggering. The group claims that the board of OU are protected Ballard. When the women report reported that they had been sexually assaulted and they believed that our was misleading donors and the public as well, it was obvious I could be manipulated because of how much I cared. Court filings also alleged that by being involved with our Utah Attorney General Sean Reyes effectively gave Ballard cover. Their attorney Alan Mortensen echoed those claims in his criticism of Reyes for his close ties to Ballard.

Guest 2 [02:40:39] Where's our Attorney General protecting these women? That's where I'm angry

Carah Burrell [02:40:45] now.

Guest [02:40:46] The group says they spoke publicly today because of the statements made publicly by Tim Ballard and Operation Underground Railroad. Jeannie, we reached out to Tim Ballard and the organization. We have not received a response Back to You all right, Lindsay, thank you. We'll continue to follow this story.

Tim Ballard's Former Closet Friends Support Him

Carah Burrell [02:41:03] You can pause it there really quick,

John Dehlin [02:41:04] Carah, just a couple notes. Come in. Sylvia Kranz, thanks for the super chat. She says, thank you, Karen John. This Nevermo loves you. Shout out to our never Mormon viewers as well as our believing viewers and our, you know, all of our other viewers as well. A reddish, I think that's Colby's mom says, good job, Karen John. And and of course, Birojiro says, excellent seeing these two back doing this. So people like it that we're collabing again. Carah. Yeah, I'm not surprised. You were always loved by my audience.

Carah Burrell [02:41:42] Our chemistry is always beloved, always epic. Yeah. And just to add to that, somebody asked what does Glenn Beck think of him now? I think it's important to mention that in addition to OOR kicking him out, as I'm about to discuss in a second, that his own organization that he founded parted ways with him saying that he was kicked out for misconduct reasons, that his own best friends that initially propped him up. The day that that statement came out, I was notified because on Twitter or x Glenn Beck, his bestest bud, who helped raise him his first million, who helped prop up our at the beginning and Tim Ballard would not be where he is without Glenn Beck. Glenn Beck took to Twitter the first day that that statement came out saying like he can't believe that the church would, you know, publicly excommunicate somebody by putting this statement out just defending Tim up, down, up and down to only then later read the messages and the evidence from Tim's alleged victims and say actually I believe the women. And then the Blaze has investigated Tim and published their own pieces about Tim's, Tim's allegations and, and what was going on. So he did a real 180 Glenn Beck did. And same with Sean Reyes. Sean Reyes has a similar story and also flipped on him. So we have not heard much from

John Dehlin [02:43:13] Sean Reyes since he was no longer Attorney General.

Carah Burrell [02:43:17] Yeah, but he just had a statement that he, he does believe the women and his friendship with Tim Ballard has ended. So kind of wherever you look, Tim's former closest allies have come out in support of the women. Eric Mustos is another one of them. And he says that he was, you know, told kind of the talking points to give when the allegations and the statement first came out. And he was about to run point for his friend Tim Ballard until the women reached out and he saw the evidence and the evidence of just what Tim Ballard. He's admitted that he's Done this thing called the couple's ruse. And to just go one step further, to say that he crossed some lines and committed sexual assault is not a big stretch of the imagination. Without even having to see the evidence and then put the evidence on top of it. And it's. It's heartbreaking. It's intense.

Tim Ballard Sexual Misconduct Complaint

John Dehlin [02:44:12] Remind us what the couple's ruse is.

Carah Burrell [02:44:17] Yeah, we can go to the next slide. So six women filed complaints against Tim Ballard in 2023. Their accounts include grooming under religious pretext, unwanted touching and simulated sex acts. Pressure to role play as undercover wives, use of spiritual manipulation and priesthood authority to justify it. Invoking Elder Ballard's name, especially saying that, you know, people I have talked to, and it's alleged also in the lawsuits that Tim used Elder Ballard's name like an involuntary cough, that when people were uncomfortable with anything, including the couple's ruse, that he said that Elder Ballard approved of this. That is what's alleged. So multiple witnesses, including insiders at Operation Underground Railroad, corroborated patterns of sexual misconduct and deception. He said that this couple's ruse, though, would help them blend in while confronting traffickers, when in reality, the training includes included tantric yoga, couples massages with escorts, lap dances, chemistry exercise to build tension all the way to alleged rape. So couples ruse was a tactic that Tim said that the only way that he could fool the sex traffickers was that they there's. I'm gonna speak in what Tim says, and then I'll speak in what's alleged by his victims. What Tim says is that the only way to stop a sex trafficker. He found the best tactic of all is to bring a girlfriend or a wife along. So when a child or somebody is offered that's underage, you can say, oh, I can't like partake right now because the old ball and chain is here or whatever, and they don't want me to participate in this type of sex act, whether in like a brothel or what have you or a massage parlor. And so he could have somebody run cover to stop that. But Tim is using hairdressers, he's using his executive assistant. He's using, you know, regular suburban moms and actresses without any proper training to be in these types of environments. Many of them having panic attacks. They haven't been in these type of CD environments alone. So any way you want to slice was a. A horrible idea and tactic from the get go. But in a clip that I'll play soon, that's what Tim says. Like, are you to say the right way that a child should be saved from sex trafficking. Like. So the couple's ruse really got out of hand and was as it seems to be a way for Tim to skirt the rules of, you know, his. His Mormon covenants with his wife, put it that way.

John Dehlin [02:46:46] And he would use that line. What would you do to save kids?

Carah Burrell [02:46:49] Yes. So one example. What would you do to save kids? One plaintiff, identified as MK describes and early interview to be Ballard's girlfriend on a mission. She says Tim told her she needed to prove their connection to show she could turn him on enough and that he would want to have sex with her without touching him. Later, he sent texts saying she should be comfortable with him touching her under her swimsuit in a hot tub, showering together, other physical, intimate situations that might be required during an op, all framed as a necessity for the mission. And there on screen, I have a picture that's in the documents of the lawsuit. Our undercover operations couples ruse agreement. So it's also been alleged that, you know, I think it's like $2.3 million of our's donor money was funneled to a separate entity to be able to pay for prostitutes. So that's another thing that people just don't know. The donors did not know where this money was going, and much of it was tied up in the operational expenses of Tim Ballard and his other employees. Sex play and abuse of his. What's the word I'm looking for? The people he works with on his missions. The search of the C camera. Name?

John Dehlin [02:48:12] Cosplay. Cosplay.

Carah Burrell [02:48:13] No, no, the. Anyway, not important, but the. The women that he's worked at, he's working with. It's getting late. My brain is not working as fast as it was. But you're doing great, basically. I think you guys are understanding that he contracts and hires these women and uses them as a means to his own sexual gratification. That's what is alleged, as well as living a lifestyle, as it's been alleged to me from people with an Our just kind of being able to live a lifestyle that as a Mormon guy, he was not able to live. But if he's under his undercover Persona as Brian Black, he's like, these text messages don't matter what I'm saying. Undercover, I get to do doesn't matter. And he can. He can hide underneath his undercover Persona at all times. So that's his. His defense of these text messages. Because everything that I'm saying here is a lit. Is in text messages. Like, it's. It's all really there.

John Dehlin [02:49:08] Yeah, and I just want to ask everyone really quickly, please like and subscribe and comment. It really helps with the algorithms. We've only got like 25, 40, 46 likes with. With 900 people viewing. So that would be super useful if y' all would like and subscribe really quickly. Carah. As I've listened to a tiny bit of Tim Ballard talk recently, I think it was in the actual video he released. He basically makes it sound like all of these sexual abuse allegations have been dismissed or thrown out or are gonna die. He makes it sound like they were all fake and fraudulent and are failed.

Tim Ballard: All of the Sexual Abuse Cases Are Still Active

Guest 2 [02:49:50] What.

John Dehlin [02:49:50] What would you say about that?

Carah Burrell [02:49:54] So what I would say to that is the protective order. So let's talk about Tim. He'll smear the women. It's. It's really important him to smear the women as obsessed with him or wanting to, you know, kill Catherine to take over as his. His wife or something. So unfortunately, we do have evidence of Tim Ballard's semen in a 100 DNA match by the Utah County Crime Lab on Celeste Boris, his executive assistant's skirt. And so evidence like that he does not like to talk about. He would call Celeste obsessed. However, she's been granted a permanent sexual violence protective order until 2027. So Tim has not acknowledged that you don't get a multi year protective order because of obsession. You get it? A judge believes there's a credible danger and she is a credible accuser. So if you want me to, I can. I have everything right in front of me. I can take you through his different cases. But the way he makes it sound is like, Tim Ballard, seven women, zero. The truth of it is much messier. But the.

John Dehlin [02:51:16] Are there some ongoing cases that have legs?

Carah Burrell [02:51:22] For sure? For sure.

John Dehlin [02:51:24] More than one.

Guest [02:51:25] Yeah.

Carah Burrell [02:51:26] So I want to make sure that I get it exactly right. That so.

John Dehlin [02:51:33] And it's okay if you don't know.

Carah Burrell [02:51:35] Oh, I do know.

John Dehlin [02:51:35] Okay.

Carah Burrell [02:51:38] So. So5. So the original five women's lawsuit that was filed anonymously in 2020, October 2023, that talks about the couple's ruse that we were just talking about, it's also been amended. There's no neutral reporting that momentum is in Tim Ballard's favor, as he would have you believe. He calls them frivolous and rapidly dismissed. But what he's ignoring is the permanent sexual violence order against him. There's ongoing state and federal civil suits and his. His own defamation countersuit against his six alleged accusers. That's what he has still going on. But the. Let's see.

John Dehlin [02:52:36] I mean, Sounds like you're saying there's a lot of cases still active against him.

Carah Burrell [02:52:41] There's still state and federal cases. I'm trying to find the portion of it that explains this in my summary, but I wish Ryan was here.

John Dehlin [02:52:50] It's okay. I think. You know what? Go to Carah Barrell's channel, follow Carrell. And Timmy did what to. To get more status on these cases.

Carah Burrell [02:53:01] Yeah.

John Dehlin [02:53:01] I think it's sufficient for you just to say that by your understanding, several credible cases are still ongoing, federal and state. Is that what you're saying?

Carah Burrell [02:53:11] Yes, actually, I think we don't need

John Dehlin [02:53:16] to keep trying to.

Carah Burrell [02:53:18] So to answer the question of why Tim Ballard is not in jail, though, I can answer that. There are no convictions or sentencing yet against him, but there are still serious allegations, and there's still. There's still people gathering evidence, and concurrently,

John Dehlin [02:53:40] many are people texting you right now.

Carah Burrell [02:53:42] No. Trying to read my own notes.

John Dehlin [02:53:47] So the problem is, no matter what he gets charged with, I think Trump's gonna pardon him.

Carah Burrell [02:53:52] Yeah, don't say that.

John Dehlin [02:53:53] Well, no, because Trump pardoned Trevor Milton Trump pardoned Rudy Giuliani, Trump pardoned the crypto fraud people like Trump is pardoning. If you're a criminal, it seems like Trump is going to pardon you. And again, that's not a political statement. That's just. I mean, Trump freaking gave Jeff. Jeff Epstein's bestie accomplice, like, a reduced, you know, prison detail. Like.

Carah Burrell [02:54:21] Yeah. So I know that the. The main one is still ongoing, and there's still investigations, and he could still be arrested, technically likely at any day, but one that he likes to dismiss. That I would like to clarify on is that Celeste, who I just mentioned, his executive assistant, who has the DNA on his. Her skirt from an assault that happened that, unfortunately, a Utah judge threw that out. Not because she was lying. He was. The judge didn't even look at any of the evidence. It has nothing to do with the evidence that she presented. It was dismissed because the judge did not like the way that she gathered emails and did not wait for discovery and was able to. Yeah. So that. That broke the court's rules, obviously, for how you gather evidence, and that was a mistake to do it that way. But the case ended for technical reasons, not because any of the allegations were proven false, and the pattern of abuse still exists nonetheless. So.

John Dehlin [02:55:19] And Ryan is saying that that case that was thrown out is being appealed to the Utah Supreme Court, and she say the other four are still active. So thank you, Ryan Fisher, for helping Carah out on that.

Carah Burrell [02:55:35] So let's.

John Dehlin [02:55:35] And then he's also saying there's an additional lawsuit active from a group in California alleging fraud.

Carah Burrell [02:55:42] Right.

John Dehlin [02:55:43] So, anyway, so let's. Let's talk about why Tim was kicked

Why Was Tim Ballard Kicked Out of the Mormon Church?

Carah Burrell [02:55:48] out of the church. I wish I could play this entire thing. It would bring me so much joy. But we're just gonna play a short clip of this video I collected about 15 minutes worth of Tim Ballard talking about. And other people talking about the couple's rude. So we're just gonna play the first portion of it, and you tell me if this makes sense.

John Dehlin [02:56:06] Like this is why he was excommunicated.

Carah Burrell [02:56:09] I'm saying, why was Tim kicked out? LDS Church and our.

John Dehlin [02:56:15] Okay, okay.

Carah Burrell [02:56:15] Maybe it had something to do with this.

John Dehlin [02:56:17] With this montage.

Carah Burrell [02:56:18] Yes.

John Dehlin [02:56:19] Carah's a. If you ever need an editor. Carah's worth six figures just for editing skills. And I can testify. Is that true?

Carah Burrell [02:56:28] I really slapped this together. Last minute in a rage. I was just throwing things together and putting it on the Internet.

John Dehlin [02:56:34] Let's roll the tape.

Guest 2 [02:56:37] I work. I know the couple's ruse might sound weird to some people. It doesn't fit anywhere into the. You know, the white handbook that says how to. You know, how to, you know, keep the kingdom orderly. There's no section on how to rescue children from sex traffickers. Wait. I want to explain and study. And here's my team. We've had to figure that out on our own. I get it. People will just dismiss it. But. But. But I. I will. I. I'm grateful for the opportunity to publicly say, I will never, ever. I don't care who. I don't care. There's not one person on this planet that if they. If they came to me. Unless it was God himself and an angel or something that says, sorry, we need you to lie to protect, you know, Elder Fowler's name from. From defamation. Unless God himself comes and tells me, I will never, ever confess to something I didn't do. And I did not do that thing.

Guest [02:57:44] I'm a former Marine. I'm a licensed clinical social worker. I treated the victims of trafficking for more than a decade. And Tim knew he could manipulate that. I came to our. Because I thought, what if I could intervene? So before someone ended up broken forever, before they had to suffer this kind of pain for the rest of their lives, I sat in a chair for 10 years and had held people's hands

Guest 2 [02:58:10] as adults who'd suffered what our.

Guest [02:58:15] And Tim fraudulently represented that they were fighting. It was obvious I could be manipulated because of how much I cared About I joined our and I was brought out to Utah for an interview. That interview consisted of Tim immediately talking about the couple's ruse. My background was not vetted. My references were not checked because the only thing that mattered to Tim was whether or not I thought I could

Guest 2 [02:58:43] engage in the couple's ruse. He was obsessed with it.

Guest [02:58:46] Once it became clear Tim Ballard had betrayed their friendship through the unauthorized use of prison, President Ballard's name for Tim Ballard's personal advantage and activity regarded as morally unacceptable, President Ballard, with his association,

John Dehlin [02:59:02] just received word Ballard has been excommunicated.

Guest 2 [02:59:05] According to the complaint, Tim Ballard was excommunicated by the Mormon Church. You have reason to believe that somehow.

Guest [02:59:10] Correct.

John Dehlin [02:59:10] All right, so what do we take from all that?

Guest [02:59:13] The late president, the quorum of the twelve apostles, Jesus Christ, set apart as a prophet, seer and revelator. Okay, quote, sanctioned the couple's ruse and was aware of one of the sexual assaults wherein Tim Ballard allegedly went to a woman's home and raped her. Okay, quote, President Ballard did not tell Tim Ballard to go to the police and report his horrible act, the lawsuit states. Rather, President Ballard told Tim Ballard to do better at obeying the couple's ruse rules. As I've said before, couples rules, it's kind of hard to say because it's something that's never really been implemented. I think there's ample evidence in the lawsuit that from Janet Russin and so forth, that the rules are really whatever Tim Ballard wanted the rules to be. He's the prophet, he's the go to guy. So. And it says at the bottom, last

Carah Burrell [03:00:05] church, there's you back from yesterday. So, yeah, in that clip that I just left on, off. Speaking on, that's an allegation from the lawsuit that when Tim Ballard committed a rape and immediately called M. Russell Ballard, he didn't call it. Tell him to call authorities. He didn't try to do anything but just say, just try to follow the couple's rules rules a little bit better is alleged what he has said. So the church, and OU for that matter, knowing that these are the allegations that are made from alleged victims within our. Was this not going to be a powder keg that was about to explode with allegations like an apostle of the church basically okayed rape and said, keep doing what you're doing. Just a little bit more protection next time, buddy. What else was the church really supposed to do? And then in addition to that, the clip at the beginning, the way that Tim talks like that, the couple's ruse, it might look strange and foreign. It's not in the white handbook, you know, but you guys don't know how to save sex traffic. Kids. Like, this is a really specialized thing that only cool guys like me who have red faces, who are screaming into cars, really know what they're doing. Like, the way that Tim frames it, he. He doesn't want anyone detracting from the system that he set up. So it's sick and it's sadistic, and I think a lot of people have been harmed along the way.

John Dehlin [03:01:34] Yeah. All right, so where do we. Where do we go from here? I think you've made a pretty good case.

The Mormon Church knew about Tim Ballard's sexual misconduct

Carah Burrell [03:01:41] So this one is very interesting. I want to make sure we mention this. So we're trying to connect the dots between, you know, when did the church know what was going on within our. Like, who tipped them off? And how was Tim kicked out of our to begin with? I think that this slide and this screenshot helps illuminate that a little bit. So if you want to just briefly, you can show the slide and I'll read it so people can go back to looking at my face if they want to. So the implosion. In August 2023, an our insider emailed an anonymous letter to wealthy donors, including Tony Robinson. Later expl. The letter explained that o your board of directors and lawyers had silenced executives with non disclosure agreements, making it virtually impossible for them to defend the organization against Tim Ballard's false narratives. So because executives were gagged, insiders felt a moral obligation to leak information anonymously to protect women and donors. The anonymous message stated that several weeks earlier, an our employee who went on an undercover mission with Tim Ballard had filed a sexual harassment complaint with ouar's HR department. Okay, so that complaint triggered an internal investigation into Tim's behavior and operational tactics. You know, of course, the couple's ruse and the investigation uncovered multiple women describing nearly identical experiences of grooming and manipulation over two to three years. It alleged that Tim deceived and pressured women into sexual acts under the pretense of performing the couple's ruse operations to, quote, save children. And then the later. The letter claimed our's attorney had restricted leadership from publicly confirming any of this, forcing staff to leak the truth to donors. So why did the would the church act preemptively? The internal Our letter circulated in early August 2023, one month before the church's September public announcement. These details were already reaching major donors, media contacts, and likely prominent Utah circles. With this deep overlap between LDS leadership and our supporters. So with lawsuits imminent, whistleblower leaks spreading national attention. On the sound of freedom, church leadership would have known the situation was about to explode. Publicly excommunicating Tim before those allegations became undeniable allowed the Church to distance itself from the impending scandal that would tarnish the Mormon Church's good name. Case closed. Thank you. APPLAUSE There you go. Does that make sense? Any questions? Close class.

Tim Ballard: My Best Friend Believes He Did Nothing Wrong

John Dehlin [03:04:16] I love you. Have a screenshot of Adam Herbert's. He's been a great journalist on this case. Yeah, ADAM Herbert's from Bucks 13 News.

Carah Burrell [03:04:24] Yeah, I just put up a. A tweet of his that says, upon learning of the couple's ruse and how Ballard used it, the Mormon Church excommunicated Ballard after a disciplinary council where Ballard claimed that he did nothing wrong in acting out the couple's ruse. I really just, I want to just have a Mormon listen to what I just said, somebody who's a Tim Ballard believer, and say, what in this makes him like, can you really believe that he did nothing wrong? I wish we could play more of the clip that I just. It's a 15 minute clip, I have it on my YouTube channel of Jimmy Rex, one of. I've been on his podcast. I've talked to him about Tim Ballard. Jimmy Rex went on operations with Tim Ballard and said, yeah, he might have had good intentions to begin with, but I'm close to a lot of people in the situation. And he's like, Tim Ballard got ahead of himself, his ego got in the way and he. From his own perspective, Jimmy Rex says that he has seen a lot of sexual assault happen within our. So the same with Eric Musto. So Tim's closest friends believe the women and the evidence. You don't even have to speak to them. You can read the evidence yourself through the lawsuits. There's text messages and all kinds of crazy things. So hoping that those victims get the justice that they deserve.

John Dehlin [03:05:41] And then you've got several additional slides talking about allegations the Church knows about.

Carah Burrell [03:05:47] I thought you might enjoy these, but now I don't know if I should show them.

John Dehlin [03:05:49] It's Mormon stories. You got to show them.

Carah Burrell [03:05:51] I, I thought that you're like, Mr. Like, let's not speak in allegations territory, but, well, if you call them allegations, they're allegations. So for the allegations the Church might have known about. So I just explained the whole long theory about the couple's ruse. But in addition to allegedly raping two women and sexually assaulting several others, it's said in the lawsuit that he brought his newly returned missionary son to a strip club church probably doesn't like that, that Tim does drugs like ketamine and cocaine. That's also what's alleged. Tim drinks alcohol, can't do that in Mormonism, and arranged for Attorney General Sean Reyes to do cocaine with strippers. It's really just a word of wisdom.

John Dehlin [03:06:33] That's not crazy allegations.

Carah Burrell [03:06:35] I'm not even done.

Guest [03:06:36] What.

Carah Burrell [03:06:37] Second slide.

John Dehlin [03:06:38] But I'm just imagining they're like, well, you know, we can't work with drug dealers and act like bad guy child abusers if we don't actually snort the cocaine. You know, we got to grope the women and snort the cocaine to make the bad guys think we're also bad guys. Right.

Carah Burrell [03:06:54] Yeah. I think in Tim's explanation, he said that he has a way of like drinking alcohol and spitting it out right afterwards. But I, I, I personally think that Tim Ballard, a long time ago, he was a nice, innocent Mormon boy who just liked American history and Mormonism. And one thing led to another and he found a, a dark, seedy world that he wanted to help in, but instead took advantage of of the most vulnerable people within those circumstances. So I, I think he might have had good intentions to begin with. It, it's some place along the way, but you watch enough, you know, child exploitation materials, you're in enough brothels, you apparently don't have the nervous system calming, regulation skills that your church supposedly says it offers through prayer and ritual and temple attendance. You need something more. You turn to drugs and alcohol and acting out of some of the worst behaviors possible. I think that's kind of the road that he took. And yeah, the, the cocaine was allegedly supposed to be, I mean, that's not even in a different country. That's alleged to have happened in a penthouse in Salt Lake City.

John Dehlin [03:08:00] So. And if that weren't enough, there's more.

Guest [03:08:04] Yeah.

Carah Burrell [03:08:05] And the second slide. This is exclusive for you. Mormon stories. This has not been anywhere else on the Internet except for on my Patreon behind a paywall. So Tim used Elder Ballard's name to give get people to donate money and support his nonprofit endeavors via whiteboard meeting. So that's been talked about a lot. I have a small picture of the whiteboard meeting and essentially his. Like I've explained earlier, at the top, Tim has his, his name and all of these for profit and nonprofit ventures funneling into money for him and his associates and silent partners like Emerald Russell Ballard. That was from a private meeting for his investors in 2019. That was.

John Dehlin [03:08:44] Rebecca Loveless is saying that her dad was at the whiteboard meeting. What? How cool is that?

Carah Burrell [03:08:50] I don't think I've even met Becky yet. She's been in this seat before.

John Dehlin [03:08:53] She's awesome. Yeah.

Carah Burrell [03:08:54] Yeah. So there's the whiteboard meeting. The church probably didn't like that getting out that Emerald Ballard was a silent partner. But Tim also has text messages of him mocking the temple. So this is.

John Dehlin [03:09:09] I didn't know this.

Carah Burrell [03:09:10] I know. I told you an exclusive. I bring the best stuff I. I even have on my patreon. I didn't bring it this time. I have even more stuff like this. Yeah. So this is not him in temple clothes. That's that famous picture of like somebody in temple clothes.

John Dehlin [03:09:25] Okay. Okay.

Carah Burrell [03:09:25] But he's basically mocking the temple. He's saying you cut. You just cut the snake's head right off. Like this parentheses. Did I go too far?

John Dehlin [03:09:33] Oh, he's sharing.

Carah Burrell [03:09:35] He's sharing it. It says ts a photo of people. I'm sorry.

Paul Porter: Tim Ballard May Have Received A Second Anointing

John Dehlin [03:09:38] Doing the temple ceremony.

Guest [03:09:39] Yeah.

Carah Burrell [03:09:39] And he's saying hahaha. So he's sharing a photo of the temple ceremony, which would be very naughty, but mostly extremely mild compared to the last slide of things that I showed.

John Dehlin [03:09:50] Oh my goodness. Carrie, you'll love this. Paul Porter just made us very generous super chat donation. Whoa. This is what he wrote.

Carah Burrell [03:09:59] Rent is paid.

John Dehlin [03:10:00] Could Tim be a pious believer similar to what Dan Vogel believes Joseph Smith was? If he act. If he received a second anointing. Are you alleging that. That he may have received a second anointing?

Carah Burrell [03:10:12] I don't have evidence or proof of that. What Only thing I have is that my co host Ryan says that when they were friends, he received a special blessing from Elder Ballard. Special blessing could mean anything. But he said he received a special blessing that absolved him of his guilt and his sins and it made him be able to participate in work that was very seedy and disgusting.

John Dehlin [03:10:32] Continue.

Carah Burrell [03:10:32] That's all I know.

John Dehlin [03:10:33] Well, if people don't know what the second earning is, check out the Tom Phillips episode of Mormon Stories. We've done several episodes on it. But it's basically a super secret Mormon temple ceremony where basically couples are called in apostles wash the feet and give special blessings to the couple. At some point the couple goes into a room and I think the wife washes the feet and maybe blesses the head of the husband. I always forget the details, but they're basically promised that unless they murder someone, they will be exalted in the afterlife as gods.

Carah Burrell [03:11:11] Calling an election is made. Sure.

John Dehlin [03:11:12] Yeah. And that's something that happens today. We've Covered it a lot. And. But Mormons, average Mormons, aren't told about it. And normally you have to be super wealthy or a family of other top church leaders to be invited. So it's basically just the elite in the church who are wealthy and connected. But basically, Paul Porter's asking if Tim Ballard received a second anointing. That is extremely powerful to someone like Tim. My own father knew of the second anointing, and it was a mission in his life to get it ultimately cost him everything in his life. That's sad to hear.

Carah Burrell [03:11:53] Paul, do you want to come be on my podcast and tell that story?

John Dehlin [03:11:57] Thank you. Thank you for sharing.

Carah Burrell [03:11:58] Thank you, Paul.

John Dehlin [03:11:59] We're sorry. And yeah, I mean, if you've got. If you've received the second anointing, you can feel very empowered, right?

Carah Burrell [03:12:06] Emboldened.

John Dehlin [03:12:07] Yeah.

Carah Burrell [03:12:07] Yes.

John Dehlin [03:12:08] Yeah.

Carah Burrell [03:12:09] That nothing can touch you. So I've speculated for a long time, and at this point, whether he had it or he didn't almost doesn't matter because he acted like he did. He acted like there's blessings that. So remember when I said that there's all this evidence that came out in the lawsuits that was not able to be seen because it was accessed improperly stuff? So one of those are a lot of blessings from Tom Harrison. So I have one of the most earth shattering, fascinating interviews that I did with Ryan, my co host, when he first came on my podcast, about his knowledge of Tim's connection with Tom Harrison, who wrote Visions of Glory and the blessings that he was given at the time that nothing can basically touch him. I read some of those blessings on the podcast and they're. They're scary. They're fascinating that Tim. Tim acted above the law. He could act, you know, above the fray of the church leadership and discipline and stuff. And that kind of cost him. He did jump the shark. And when he's excommunicated, he's like, but what about those blessings? What about me being able to stay in the church forever?

Tim Ballard and the Web of Crazy Mormons

John Dehlin [03:13:13] So Tyson Hadfield writes my favorite Mormon Stories episode was Lila Tullers talking about her dad, who was not Von Featherstone, but what was Lila Tuler's dad's name?

Carah Burrell [03:13:30] It's a weird name. I know this.

John Dehlin [03:13:34] Oh, my gosh. People are going to tell me in the comments.

Carah Burrell [03:13:36] I'm gonna look it up right now.

John Dehlin [03:13:37] Anyway, Lila Tuller's Hartman Rector Jr. Referenced his second anointing by saying, well, I've had my second anointing. So in other words, he used it to justify bad things.

Carah Burrell [03:13:53] Exactly.

John Dehlin [03:13:54] Because he knew that as long as he wasn't murdering, it wasn't going to be held against him in heaven, which is abusive and bad.

Carah Burrell [03:14:00] Yeah, yeah, Love. When narcissism and religion coalesce.

John Dehlin [03:14:06] So other allegations.

Carah Burrell [03:14:08] That's my. The further allegations the church might have known about that he was disrespecting the temple and that his prophet was basically Tom Harrison and that he used a psychic named Janet Russin. That I have a picture thereof. And I won't get into that other entire web of what's going on, but it is my best. My favorite wormhole of my favorite rabbit hole to go down. So if you go to 49, there's the. The web of connections between Tim Ballard and all these other kooky offshoots.

John Dehlin [03:14:40] I can't read that slide. Just describe it.

Carah Burrell [03:14:43] I know I did that on purpose. That it's just an explanation that there's so many people in this web of offshoot. Offshoots of orthodoxy within Mormonism.

John Dehlin [03:14:53] Oh, okay, okay. Let me read it at the bottom.

Carah Burrell [03:14:56] And he's connected with.

John Dehlin [03:14:57] Yeah. It's got Visions of glory connections, which is Jody Hildebrandt, Ruby, Frankie, Tom Harrison. Eternal Core, which was a network of approved Mormon psychologists and mental health professionals. The Nazarene Fund, Glenn Beck, Rod Meldrum. Yep. He spoke at many of those Heartlander conferences. James Stoddard. Oh, the Stoddards. Yeah, that's. What's her name. Hannah Stoddard's. Julie Rowe. All the Prepper movement. Yeah. That's a lot. Deseret book.

Carah Burrell [03:15:35] Somebody who just told you that you were just a speck in the universe, but if you zoom out from this. This graphic, actually, it's like, 17 times bigger. I just.

John Dehlin [03:15:45] That was just a small subset.

Carah Burrell [03:15:47] Yes.

John Dehlin [03:15:47] Oh, my God.

Carah Burrell [03:15:48] Of the universe of wild and crazy people who have done things within the church that they probably want to get a handle on. Right. So the. The crazy different offshoots of morbidism that are on the news, whether it's with Jody and Ruby or

John Dehlin [03:16:09] Utah state government.

Carah Burrell [03:16:10] Like, there's just. The field is ripe and ready to harvest with crazies within Mormon theology who can take the fruit and grow and make so many different understandings of it for their own power and access. So maybe the church also, in combination with everything I just mentioned, wanted to cut his legs off before he grew into something even crazier within the church.

John Dehlin [03:16:36] I guess. If. If the doctrine that the Mormon doctrine of leadership discernment was a stock, would it be on the rise or in decline because of Tim Ballard Care Barrel.

Carah Burrell [03:16:52] Yeah, that's a great way to put it.

John Dehlin [03:16:57] He makes the. The doctrine of leadership discernment a little bit weaker.

Carah Burrell [03:17:02] Right. And with the people who are able to excommunicate people like which one are they going to go for? Are they going to let these, you know, their stock go down while Tim Ballard and Ruby Frankie stock and everyone else is going up? The institutions are going to do what they do best and manage.

John Dehlin [03:17:21] Yeah.

Carah Burrell [03:17:21] Put out fires before the powder keg explodes. So finally, I will play this next clip 50. You've asked me when I've done nothing wrong and I think it starts with an intro of me explaining in one of my podcasts about how our knew that they needed to kick him out. And then I think it goes into him ranting on Troy Abel's podcast. So go ahead and play that.

Ronald Ballard on His Sexual Assault

John Dehlin [03:17:43] Would you believe our audience is the largest of the whole night?

Guest [03:17:46] No law enforcement. Because of his sexual assault, a joint plan was hatched between our whereby he would resign ostensibly because of the appearance of a conflict of interest with the release of Sound of Freedom in which he has a financial interest in. And Ballard would take a very long lucrative severance agreement and remained the face of our so it could continue to raise money. As part of the plan, everyone was required to sign NDAs. With his image intact, Ballard moved to the Ken Krogh Run Spear Fund. I want to make as much noise for these women as possible. Heavy trigger warning as I go forward. He said he believed that he and I had been married in a different life. He said this is why he was so physically attracted to me and emotionally attracted to me. He asked if Catherine ever died or they were ever to get divorced. Did I think we could get married? I started walking towards my front door with my shirt and bra still off. I had no idea where he put them. He told me, I know you want me. He took off his belt and started pulling his pants down. Trigger warning of the century.

Guest 2 [03:18:48] I don't. Is it finance? I can't read from the statement. What are the immoral things I did? I thought it was financial and he wouldn't tell me much. So I showed up with like financial documents proving that I'd done project with other Ballard and I've never used his name to raise money. That's what I thought it was about. So my wife and I are like digging. I'm out of town, I'm back east, so I gotta get on a plane. I have no time. They don't tell me what I did. The other two are Sweet. And they're crying like, what is going on? And I sit down, and he proceeds to tell me in front of my wife that I have had penetrative sex. To use the word penetrative. I remember that. And. And I'm just like, no, I have.

Guest [03:19:17] I've had.

Guest 2 [03:19:18] I've had sexual intercourse with one woman my entire life. Pre marriage, postpart, during. She's sitting right here and she's crying, so, you know, please measure yourself. And he's. And I said, okay, who. Who did I have sex with? I can't tell you. And I said, well, I. I need to have a council. DNC102 gives me the right set of counsel in all cases. Didn't say, except when it's state president says, I'm your judge in Israel, and I can override that. Go read DNC 102. It's. There's no way to misinterpret it, guys. It's even more sure than timing. Titan can be pre, post, pac, post pact, not this. You're about to be accused. You're a public figure. You have a mission to rescue children. This is going to devastate everything. And if there's any case, you need to follow the scripture to avoid. To avoid injury and injustice. That's what the scripture says. You better follow this one. But he chose not to do. I said, look, I don't think you're making this decision. It's your decision to make. That's the protocols. Are you. Yes, I'm making the decision. He told me multiple times, working. I said, I don't think you are. I think you're lying to me. You're being told by someone up here, the Gadians, to do something. They're making you a passion. This. And they're gonna. Your head's gonna roll at the end of this when it all comes out. Nope. It's my decision. Humble and crying, tearful, you know, appropriately sweet in the moment. He comes to me and my bishop, Mark Stott, in the hallway at church and says, we didn't have a choice. I said. He said, are you okay? So, no, I'm not okay. I've done nothing wrong, and you have excommunicated me.

John Dehlin [03:20:38] Yeah. So, I mean, I. I don't mean to put this back on Joseph Smith, but Joseph Smith wasn't known for apologizing for things he did wrong. Dallin H. Oaks, the current church's prophet, is on the record of saying we neither seek nor offer apologies. Like, I don't know, is it fair to Say Tim Ballard came by it honestly to never apologize or admit wrongdoing.

Carah Burrell [03:21:03] Yeah. When you put it that way. I don't think that he was heavy in the quotes of Joseph Smith and Elder Oaks. I think that he was just a product of a patriarchal system that he knew he could do certain things with women and his friends would cover for him and he could just deny till the day he dies that he did anything improper and nobody would ever have to. He would never have to atone and account for it. So I think the way he came by it honestly is being a white man in a patriarchal culture that believes him over victims. Dang it. That's just a product of that system. So. Believes that he was excommunicated for doing nothing wrong.

Tom Brokaw on Harvey

John Dehlin [03:21:59] Yeah. It's hard to imagine that there's all this smoke and no fire. So that seems improbable to me. So I was dying to know whether Tim has filed a lawsuit against the church. Is there any evidence of a lawsuit? Do you have any word behind the scenes about whether he's filed or whether he intends to file?

Tim Ballard Threatens to Sue the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter

Carah Burrell [03:22:25] I can play this next clip, and this is what he said on the podcast, and then I can kind of read his words to the church leadership. What he's implying is basically like they. I don't know if he's all. All smoke and no fire either, but he's. He's heavily implying that if they don't retract what they said about him and. Yeah. That they are going to be under investigation and in big, big trouble.

John Dehlin [03:22:54] So I'm trying to imagine him suing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in a Utah court.

Carah Burrell [03:23:02] My testimony is stronger than ever. I'm just suing the watchman on the

John Dehlin [03:23:05] tower who fell asleep anyway. It seems like a fool's errand, but who knows? Let's roll the clip.

Guest 2 [03:23:15] I will get into everything because everybody deserves to know that this is all coming out in ways I can't control anyway. Okay. There are civil and criminal conspiracies all over, potential charges, civil, criminal potential everywhere in multiple countries. And a lot of it is concentrated. And. And what I'm going to tell you as I answer these questions, Troy, is everything I say. I can't lie, guys. I. I have given this testimony, or will be giving this testimony under oath in court. Court.

Carah Burrell [03:23:43] So why would he say that if he's not planning on taking them to court? And then I'll go straight into this. The last slide. We made it to the last slide.

John Dehlin [03:23:52] We did it.

Carah Burrell [03:23:54] So there are in like overt legal threats. In his letter to the First Presidency, it says, quote, barring a prompt public retraction of the defamatory statement, they have been left with few options other than to go public and, or, or legal. So basically, that is his last ditch effort. Tim's position is I was falsely excommunicated, defamed by my own church, and attacked for political reasons. The church statement was a lie, and unless they retract it, I may sue to defend my family and my mission. But as it turns out, the church cut ties because credible misconduct allegations were coming. Tim reframes accountability as persecution, mixing lawsuits, conspiracies and martyrdom to preserve his image. So everyone has their intentions of what they're after. And that is. That's what Tim's after.

John Dehlin [03:24:46] What's your back here? Does, does a lawsuit get filed by Tim Ballard against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? Or is this bluster or does he end up in a ditch somewhere mysteriously? What's your prediction? You're a prophetess, be a prophetess.

Carah Burrell [03:25:04] My profitess prediction is he's threatening it right now, but he doesn't have the money to hire attorneys. It's my understanding.

John Dehlin [03:25:15] What about a contingency fee? Is there an attorney out there that wants the recognition or the possibility of money by suing the church on contingency?

Carah Burrell [03:25:25] I just think he owes too much to his lawyers already. I don't know.

John Dehlin [03:25:29] Wait, Freedom made hundreds of millions. Certainly he got a percentage of that. And if that's true, why isn't he richer than. I don't know who, someone rich.

Carah Burrell [03:25:41] It's been my understanding that he had a team of attorneys that he couldn't pay anymore, that it was. His lawsuit was costing like $50,000 a day. Just something outrageous that he is. He's out of cash. He's fundraised at his own stake. I have a video on my Patreon about that that his stake president held a fundraiser for, for him and his legal funds.

John Dehlin [03:26:01] I remember that.

Carah Burrell [03:26:02] So I don't think that that's advantageous to go after suing the church. I think he can talk in these terms like that, you know, that are a little bit more ambiguous right now and people are not able to see through it. Suing it, that would be coming extremely litigious and he would definitely lose the last remaining base of the Mormon audience that he has. My prediction is that he is going to shift to a wider Republican base, an evangelical base, and attack the church on claims of satanic ritual abuse. To, you know, a national audience. That would be my prediction.

Guest [03:26:45] And

Carah Burrell [03:26:48] try to still weave this, this game, thread this needle to Mormon audiences that he's not actually attacking the church because he's attacking the Watchmen with this theology that we've laid out today. So if you see him on a bigger national stage, just say that. Carah called it

John Dehlin [03:27:07] so he talked about a documentary of his excommunication that he's going to be releasing. I'm desperate to see that.

Carah Burrell [03:27:15] I am like going to be booked out. I'm going to.

John Dehlin [03:27:19] What's it, what's it called?

Carah Burrell [03:27:20] You remember what he called it called Backfire.

John Dehlin [03:27:22] Yeah, Backfire.

Carah Burrell [03:27:23] And apparently it's probably going to be on Troy Abel's last dispensation podcast show. So when that comes out, expect me and Ryan to have lots of rebuttals to that care.

John Dehlin [03:27:34] We might have to have you back on Mormon stories.

Carah Burrell [03:27:37] You're saying that like it's a bad

John Dehlin [03:27:38] thing, that's a good thing.

Carah Burrell [03:27:39] And all of the audience cheers. Thanks, guys. So I don't know, what are your predictions?

Tim Ballard: If He Goes to National TV, Does That Cause

John Dehlin [03:27:46] Yeah, I. It's hard to believe he would sue the church, really go through with it, that he would have the money or the coones, but it's possible. But I didn't think he would do this. Did you ever think he would come out full force against the church as corrupt and in apostasy? Like, I would not have guessed that, especially because he went silent for two years.

Carah Burrell [03:28:09] I wouldn't say he's gone totally silent. He said other things against the church, but it's actually not coming to me right now. I've made other videos where he's come out and said other things about the church being corrupt in smaller ways, but when you throw around satanic ritual abuse, that's a big one. That's. That gets a lot of eyeballs. So again, on that subject, I don't know the truth of it and I don't think Tim Ballard knows the truth of it. He is just using it because he's an opportunist and a lot of people care about that subject. It's a hot topic and he is using it to, yeah. Be an opportunist and profit off of. Of the fears of many.

John Dehlin [03:28:43] Well, our heart squad to the victims of Tim Ballard. Not just the women who were allegedly sexually abused, I should say alleged victims,

Guest [03:28:53] but,

John Dehlin [03:28:55] you know, I guess we'll see with the evidence, but also the financial victims, the people that he allegedly, it looks like, possibly defrauded for all their donations and all the Legitimate traffic trafficking victims that weren't helped because money that could have gone to legitimate trafficking non profits instead went to our to then be allegedly completely misused. So our hearts do go out to all the people that have suffered as a result of this guy. And our thanks and our gratitude go to you and Ryan and you know, and everyone who's done their best to cover the story, including the Vice news reporters and Adam Herbert's of Fox 13 and all the others that help keep him accountable. This story has legs. And if he starts getting national, a national profile with this story, Care Burrell, that would be good for you and your channel. That wouldn't suck.

Carah Burrell [03:30:01] That wouldn't suck. But I, I don't know, the credibility though, that if he goes to a national audience, that is what I'm worried about. If he's able to, you know, in one hand, if he's able to get the microphone in the ear of a wider audience, that further legitimizes him as, as a real anti trafficking expert, which he's not. And it kind of smooths over his, his past sins and improprieties and the allegations because now he's talking about something that they care about, that they are less willing to actually hear out victims and hear what type of man he's been up to this point. But if he's trumpeting the things that they are excited to hear and you know, so if that makes sense. So that's, that's what I'm worried about. It's less about if he does go to a national audience. Yeah, I would have a lot more worked cut out for myself, but a lot more combat, a lot more followers would probably join his, his cause and not really look behind the curtain of what has been going on this whole time. That makes sense. So it's, it's a little bit of both.

John Dehlin [03:31:07] And as far as this like causing a, a new wave of, of apostasy slash loss of, you know, faith crises, slash disaffections from kind of the more prepper conservative wing of the church. Is this gonna. You're saying you don't predict big damage to the church, some big schism?

Carah Burrell [03:31:30] No, I think people of that ilk are already the type that believe their relationship exists mostly outside of the institutional power. And I think that would continue.

Mormon Stories

John Dehlin [03:31:42] All right, well, I'm gonna just ask everybody, please, like and subscribe not just to this channel, but also to Care Burrell's YouTube channel. She has a Patreon support her there. How else can people support you? Care Brell,

Carah Burrell [03:31:58] the super Chats have been coming in are wonderful. Thank you guys. It's been just a great chat here already. So I run a non profit that is tax deductible in the United States just like Mormon stories. So hopefully in the description of this video when it's up later or in my other videos, you can, you can go find it. There's a link to my donor box where all donations are tax deductible. And then I have a Venmo at Carah B links to that. And I have our Patreon for Timmy did what where we have more behind the scenes exclusive stuff that we can't Always show on YouTube and you can watch all of our videos and our podcasts ad free. And then I have a separate podcast called the Mormon History Hoedown. So both of our podcasts are available wherever you listen to your podcasts on Spotify or Apple, what have you. And I am working just to put out videos that I think are useful and beneficial and come from my values and my heart for the post Mormon and post religious community. So started off as just a silly little girl on tick tock in her room making things that got me in trouble and now I am causing trouble in a different way. So if you support that, if you like that, if you feel validated by the type of content I make, just a like and a subscribe goes a long way and throwing more fuel on the fire does even more. So thank you John for the opportunity to speak to the Mormon Stories audience today. Thanks.

John Dehlin [03:33:23] They love having you back. I love having you back.

Carah Burrell [03:33:25] I think there's just something about the old Carah John team.

John Dehlin [03:33:29] It's legit.

Carah Burrell [03:33:30] It's legit.

John Dehlin [03:33:30] Legit. It never was not legit.

Carah Burrell [03:33:32] My birthday is February 10th. Remember to reach out and say my second favorite co host's birthday is today. That's what he said to Margi on Margi's birthday.

John Dehlin [03:33:41] I did. I posted Happy birthday Margi, my favorite Mormon story co host. And Carah said, hey, it's my wife.

Carah Burrell [03:33:50] I know. What's funny is our significant others have the same birthday, by the way.

John Dehlin [03:33:54] Awesome.

Carah Burrell [03:33:55] So anyway, that was meant. It's meant to be.

John Dehlin [03:33:57] Wait, you have a significant other?

Carah Burrell [03:33:58] My previous significant other.

John Dehlin [03:34:00] Got it.

Carah Burrell [03:34:00] Anyway, both have the same birthday so it's like perfect for us to work together. We both have to have that night off. So thank you, John. Thank you audience. I again just hope that everyone, if you leave any comment whatsoever, yes, Tim is a psycho. Tim is this and that. We know it. But if the victims, the alleged victims, I will say of Tim Ballard. Read the comment section. I hope that they are filled with uplifting comments, that they're believed and that they can keep fighting because I know them personally and it's been really freaking hard. Really, really hard road for them. But that's why we do what we do and we're gonna keep fighting.

John Dehlin [03:34:39] All right, well, thanks, Carah. Thanks, Julia, for helping moderate today. Thanks to everyone in the comments. We've had great, great comments in the live stream. Thanks to our asynchronous listeners and viewers and our podcast listeners who endured the super chats and the comments. Thanks, Rebecca, for your comment. Thank you, John and Carah. Dream team right there. That's true. Hope to have you back, Carah. Thanks to everyone who donates to Mormon Stories, the Open Stories Foundation. You make all this possible. If you don't donate to Mormon Stories of the Open Stories foundation and want to see this content continue, you can go to mormonstories.org donate or mormonstories.org and click on the donate button. Become a monthly donor and we'll keep doing this content. Thanks to Brooklyn for her editing and most importantly, be good to each other. Be kind to each other. Be a bridge builder and a peacemaker. See you again soon on the Carol Burrell Show. Timmy did what? And also on Mormon Stories podcast. Good night, everybody. Take care. Thanks, Carah.

Carah Burrell [03:35:49] Thanks, John.

John Dehlin [03:35:50] Bye, everybody. Oh, my gosh, I can't get the button to work. Oh, there it goes.

Carah Burrell [03:35:56] It's only been three and a half hours.

Guest [03:35:58] We have more.

John Dehlin [03:35:58] Bye, y'. All. Take take care.